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Magic immunity - Why cost so much?


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#1 ohmygod

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Posted 15 March 2017 - 09:21 PM

Had some nub come in and drain the fuk out of me = underworld in few casts (Mini Boss hitting on me, and eating a sandwich didn't help the situation either)

Why does MI cost so much when we all know that this is a consequence, Do i need to soft reset and go pr0 afk harvestor/mixer/mag trainer too?

That would be boring..imo

Edit: added bracketed comment

#2 Kurama

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 12:15 AM

If it wouldnt cost that much, magicians wouldnt be able to PK... and thats only thing they can do (besides healing :))

#3 ohmygod

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 12:24 AM

Unbalanced combat system agreed...but swung to side of mag trainers too much... TD is ok but would hate to see them in KF due to not being able to spam brs pots. maybe increase the time between offensive spell casting then if not reduce MI mana costs

#4 Grimm

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 01:33 AM

To OP a spell, 1 spell immune to all..... needs to be broken up to multiple spells of a immunity to a chosen effect instead of all effects.

#5 ohmygod

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 03:48 AM

Yes need scissors rock paper type system developed, but for now Mag trainers too OP outside of TD.

Increase spell casting time on offensive spells NOW to something resembling CD on BRs or decrease CDs on Brs to that of spell cast time, no vote required just like MI increased mana cost was not voted on......(?)

Edit: added underscore and bold formatting

#6 Kaddy

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 06:13 AM

No, you are wrong.

There are ways to beat mages even in KF, I did to Duece alot of times.

In TD, you just have to be careful or train with BRs when there are mages on (that would attack you)

I always checked online players page while I was training in TD and NEVER died to Duece that killed everyone lol in a year.

And the other point is, MI is just too powerful against mages who has barely any fighting attributes and they don't really have any kind of spell that blocks melee damage, am I right? If there were, then we could talk about how fair it would be.

Also keep in mind that Iron set decreases magic damage vastly, so you should also be using at least plate and greaves when there are mages on and always restore at 3x life drain point.

2 cents;
-Kaddy ^^

#7 ohmygod

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 07:01 AM

Kaddy you have invested a lot in your leveling and have a bias towards seeing  no change as I do to admittedly, with the actual change to MI. I still think that mag trainers are too powerful, and will be even more so in the future with new perks and such. Where is teh middle ground?

Hard to restore if you have no mana pool to restore from in the first place, just LD/harm from that point on. or another senario someone tank the player for 20 seconds and mag user sit on side lines doing the same thing (don't get me started the ran skill in pk...). Change BRs CDs.... i am not asking for MI to stop all. I actually enjoy the PvP over PvE, but it is skewed towards one side at the moment, potentially dropping full iron set for someone in leathers and a staff with a few ess and srs(?) is skewed imo.........

PS it was the cyc boss that I have on my death counters, not the invisi back stabbing nub mag trainer.

#8 Warlock

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 07:11 AM

Lol.

#9 ohmygod

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 09:41 AM

View PostWarlock, on 16 March 2017 - 07:11 AM, said:

Lol.
No "honor" points gained this time - nothing to see move along.....

#10 Kaddy

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 10:27 AM

No, they are still not too powerful.

Having iron top/boot decreases those LD's from 39-40 to 22-23, which saves you. With your having 180 hp and restoring like 65, you should be healing at 115 hp. If you wear iron, 115 hp would give you like 5 seconds to act, but if you wear augs, it is just 2,5-3 seconds which could kill you.

Keep in mind that in PK, there is no scenerio such as someone tank and mage kill. Because at max hp you can't drain anything (unless you put on/off mol which is a slower process).

If you are alone in PK against a team with a melee and a mage, you should always d/t immediately because there is no chance for you.

If you also have a mage team member, then it should be fun. ^^

Kaddy

#11 ohmygod

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 05:06 PM

Current game mechanics for PvP supports no morals sneaky shit and sniping from the sidelines then running away not to be seen again,

Sounds too much like EL i thought it was OL i was playing?  The class/honor of some players is pitiful......

#12 Learner

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 05:25 PM

View Postohmygod, on 16 March 2017 - 05:06 PM, said:

Current game mechanics for PvP supports no morals sneaky shit and sniping from the sidelines then running away not to be seen again,

Sounds too much like EL i thought it was OL i was playing?  The class/honor of some players is pitiful......
Do you have specific suggestions for how to change things?

#13 Kaddy

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 03:24 AM

You can always cast TS while training also.

#14 ohmygod

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 05:26 AM

I am aware that a magic system is being developed and has to be honest, been some time in the making.

As Kaddy highlighted there needs to be a survivability factor for PvPers and I would add - not just based soley and wholly on where you put your PP if you have leveled a skill.

I understand also that it is a very hard thing to balance for in a PvP setting. The leveling of and function of these different skill requires different approaches, and given that as OL is a non class specific game and the fact we have soft resets which refund PP for redistribution and that a hybrid/pure  "build" to improve the effect of these skills that can be chosen/favored and played by anyone, makes it even harder to balance.

Att/def trainers (check out the top 100 skills listing) can also have a high mag level based on the fact that they restore a lot when killing 10s of 1000s of cycs but due to placement of PP may not have the spell power/mana pool. The mag skill/afk/harvester mixer ( :P ) due to the placement of their PP to enhance the mag skill are more restricted in their ability to defend themselves if caught in a PvP/PvE type melee combat lock situation, ... Does this mean that MI needs to be so high cost that they can MD, LD Harm Poison the crap out of people willy nilly? IMO nope no way......

I know nothing about coding or the work being done on the new magic system being developed, but my earned mag skill levels should play a role in my ability to defend myself and not just rely solely on my starting mana pool available to me to cast MI if that makes sense?

The survivability of  mag skill trainer build with high eth/rat and low reaction/toughness Vs att/def skill trainer with a high dex/might, low mana pool who has them caught in combat lock is a concern for them. As is there is a real concern from me of being caught in a combat lock while being fingered from the sidelines by mag skill trainer + tank/s

Stating again that i know nothing about coding and have to rely on what i see in game as examples of what might possibility work in this instance to increase survivability, in a PvP and PvE situation for mag build trainer, that said : Phantom warriors are tough to kill and can stand up to most melee damage for a pretty reasonable amount of time, having the ability to restore on top of this would mean survivability for a decent amount of time for any mag trainer build imo. Rather than have a high MI cost for low mana pool players perhaps look at introducing a spell that would increase survivability for these types of builds is one example i can think of in evening out the playing field, in relation to the 1 skill trainers.

PW skin spell - not sure how it would look in the final details , just thoughts at moment and would need discussion.could cover a number of PvP and even PvE situations wher tough bosses need to be tanked and build/s allow for the casting of it. (not sure if this has been suggested previously) Pherhaps amount of damaged absorbed/round take into account mag skill level some how + spell power(rat)... told you im no coder

Remembering too that I can along with the rest of OL due to the non class specfic nature of the game, cast any spell available to a mag trainer specialist as my mag level is a decent enough level and if I have the sigels(sic?) required, I could just adjust my PP placement if mana cost was the issue and cast this one as well..Maybe I would do so to assist with survivability against ran attacks in PvP?

Adjustments to make MI cost heaps of mana leaving no other options availbe to choose from is not the answer. paper sissors rock, every thing should have a defence against it even if time limited.... :/

Long fights are good fights and in these cases its the not about someone who wins them in 3 seconds but the one who loses them after 3/4/5 min because they didn't pay attention to the fight/skill mechanics, eg chose the wrong paper/sissors/rock at the wrong time and fight goes down hill very quickly for them from that point.....the options are endless just need more thoght and open minds to work and develop it further along than it currently is......

I really don't know what the right answer is I just know what is not working for me in my chosen training skill /interest......maybe others can read my thoughts with an open mind and come up with more paper rock or scissor options that would make PvP  more fun again. Without the expensive gearz people are afraid to lose..and come play in pk.....(yes I have brought a 100k bow not sure what answer is for that)

Pressing send as this reply is cutting into my game time....most likely need to edit it later, cause a reread may change my thought a bit more...

omg

#15 EatsAllLife

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 05:36 PM

Except you're forgetting if you engage with a mage you can smack them a ton. Buy you gotta use tactics. It's not that hard, you just gotta know how to fight them. Or simply take more ethereality to use MI safely. MP works just fine along with brs.

#16 Warlock

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 08:12 PM

using key.ini file would be a good start to surviving..

cant stress that enough

#17 ohmygod

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Posted 17 March 2017 - 09:17 PM

Mag build trainers are 1v1 are killable yes no drama about that. how about some one tank you for the time it takes 2 mages to take you down? hard to cast MI if you get md once with EMPs on Cd.

two + years training a/d and 3 nubs with no life can take you down like nothing. Yes many ways to do it, but not this way.. open your minds think past a one V one situation.

Have a think about rangers as well and how to defend in same situation with better arrows on offer to them down the track. Long fights are fun fights.....

Oh and one day i or you may want to do a mag trainer build, think about how you would survives in pk situation

omg

I have programmable keyboard and razor mouse, left overs from WoW days, my keys are set already (now).... This is not about Deuce, this is about making pk fun against others and being able to survive if you have trained and gained levels required. Not diss tele every time 2 more people come try to finger your ass in PK and own you on their counters

#18 Kaddy

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Posted 18 March 2017 - 05:35 AM

Wouldn't it be a little weirdly OP if you could survive 3vs1? lol

You are and should be meant to die when it comes to 3vs1 :P

#19 Warlock

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Posted 18 March 2017 - 01:30 PM

Maybe its just your hotkey setup that sucks OMG, i never need more than one second to restore/use BR

Before trying to change the mechanics, why not try change your play style

#20 ohmygod

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Posted 18 March 2017 - 04:41 PM

hmmmm.


Being OP against 3 month trainer is not OP......

Anyways PK is dead no more from me in regards to this.




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