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Item Tiers


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#1 butler

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 10:35 AM

So yesterday Warlock suggested a tiered system for our items, specifically weapons and armours that would be based around rolls, and me and him continued the conversation in PMs. Here is the extended conversation.

[23:46:06] [Warlock @ 6]: would rly like to have item drops have rolls on stats, with a system in place to see what tier the roll is
[23:46:16] [butler @ 6]: yes, what WL said
[23:46:19] [Warlock @ 6]: rolls to be determined
[23:46:26] [butler @ 6]: more you mix one item, more likely to get good rolls
[23:46:30] [butler @ 6]: same with level
[23:46:34] [butler @ 6]: I wants
[23:46:46] [Warlock @ 6]: say from tier 1 being the highest, to tier 5 being the lowest
[23:47:22] [butler @ 6]: thanks for suggesting that wl, been mulling something like that in my head for a while, just not sure how to structure :D
[23:47:51] [Learner @ 6]: currently the item system requires all items of one type to have the same stats, being variable means having to create new items dynamically and ...
[23:48:08] [Learner @ 6]: ... constantly increasing number of possible items the server tracks
[23:48:20] [Warlock @ 6]: that way butler, not every serp is the same, and ppl pay more for the higher tier right
[23:48:35] [butler @ 6]: makes a more interesting economy
[23:48:46] [Warlock @ 6]: sounds to me like the only way to advance off this shitty structure we have right now
[23:48:58] [Kaddys @ 6]: WL, that would be too much coding I believe
[23:49:06] [butler @ 6]: tiers would also allow upgrading
[23:49:07] [Learner @ 6]: Just other things have to be concerned with first
[23:49:12] [Kaddys @ 6]: also, you'd have to have ALOT more sto room for that :P
[23:49:15] [butler @ 6]: which just means more gc passing around
[23:49:19] [Warlock @ 6]: well maybe thats what it takes to advance off this old school crap we have right now
[23:49:26] [Warlock @ 6]: which is outdated
[23:49:28] [Learner @ 6]: changes to client for trading, storage, & inventory would also be needed as well
[23:49:41] [butler @ 6]: would say it'd be worth it at a point
[23:49:42] [Kaddys @ 6]: would be something badass tho
[23:49:50] [Warlock @ 6]: :D
[23:49:51] [butler @ 6]: since the current system is very rudimentary
[23:50:04] [butler @ 6]: i mean
[23:50:16] [SimAnt @ 6]: i wish i had more tit longs.
[23:50:24] [butler @ 6]: most of EL/OL base is just basically radu trying to make a system, and taking the simplest he could :P
[23:52:32] [PM from Warlock: makes sense though right, maybe that is the next step for OL]
[23:52:52] [PM to Warlock: i always argued mixing needed a full overhaul]
[23:52:53] [PM from Warlock: after perks, introduce tiers of items]
[23:52:59] [PM to Warlock: and that really makes more sense]
[23:53:04] [PM to Warlock: it's a really good basis]
[23:53:12] [PM from Warlock: we all know how L doesnt like 'adding new weapons' etc]
[23:53:31] [PM to Warlock: and better to get than done before other updates since it'd be fundamental]
[23:53:36] [PM to Warlock: he likes .def files]
[23:53:37] [PM from Warlock: tier'd items sounds right to me]
[23:54:09] [PM to Warlock: tbh a graded system just makes good sense]
[23:54:31] [PM from Warlock: is the next step in 'MMO']
[23:55:05] [PM to Warlock: just extend the degraded system]
[00:00:35] [PM to Warlock: tbh, the tier system would be a good way of luring mixers and fighters back...]
[00:01:35] [PM from Warlock: would just further advance their own capabilities, regardless of build types]
[00:01:51] [PM from Warlock: what have they got to complain over?]
[00:02:30] [PM to Warlock: it's a win:win:win]
[00:02:38] [PM from Warlock: exactly]
[00:02:48] [PM to Warlock: well worth the time, sicne more plyers, more chance money spent]
[00:03:53] [PM from Warlock: and on that note actually, maybe there could even be a 'stone' that could change the stats on weapon/armor randomly]
[00:04:14] [PM from Warlock: so could use stone on serp/chain/pl8 etc, and just 'chance' your luck]
[00:04:19] [PM from Warlock: so, a 'chance stone']
[00:04:21] [PM to Warlock: reroll ston]
[00:04:29] [PM to Warlock: a rolling stone if you will]
[00:06:05] [PM from Warlock: albeit might be a bad roll, its still a use out of the stone, and that would be an extra GC sink as fighters would want stones to try chance highest ti ]
[00:06:11] [PM from Warlock: tier rolls for their serps/gear]

[00:06:47] [PM to Warlock: it's generally good money sinks, also gives good value and new drops]
[00:06:57] [PM to Warlock: gives fighters more to buy and mixers more to make and sell]
[00:07:00] [PM from Warlock: maybe MoL/MoM are prefixes, so cannot chance those rolls, but suffixes(gear/weapons)]
[00:07:04] [PM from Warlock: different story]
[00:07:32] [PM to Warlock: MoL/MoM rolls could be restricted to the armour portion, or a tiny change in hp]
[00:07:49] [PM from Warlock: tiny, i think emphasis on tiny]
[00:07:54] [PM to Warlock: yes]
[00:08:08] [PM to Warlock: but still, 1 or 2 hp extra would be valued]
[00:08:11] [PM from Warlock: like MoL having a maximum 1-3 difference]
[00:08:24] [PM to Warlock: would say 29-32]
[00:08:25] [PM from Warlock: yes exactly]

[00:08:40] [PM to Warlock: I really like it]
[00:08:52] [PM to Warlock: gives more purpose and also extends accessibility]
[00:08:59] [PM to Warlock: also lets us be more flexible in the market]
[00:09:08] [PM from Warlock: 8)]
[00:09:22] [PM to Warlock: means also some tiems can be NPCed, but give a subtier]
[00:09:30] [PM to Warlock: which is common in other games]
[00:09:32] [PM from Warlock: hmmm]
[00:09:40] [PM to Warlock: would say below lowest tier]
[00:09:52] [PM from Warlock: yes, reminds me of guild wars 2 actually]
[00:10:05] [PM to Warlock: i was trying to remember which game i got it from :p]

Now, the way i thought this could work is would result in between 5-7 tiers, constituting this sort of hierarchy:

Tier 1: Regular Item +2
Tier 2: Regular Item +1
Tier 3: Regular Item
Tier 4: Regular Item -1
Tier 5: Regular Item -2
NPC Tier: Degrade +1
Degraded: Regular degraded item

If we had it so that players skills increased the chances of creating higher level gear, along with the number of items crafted, then we could give a more varied set of items for people to buy at various different price points. It would allow people to upgrade to the better tiers or chase swords with rolls closer to what they would like.

From my experience in another game, where you had a chance to craft a +1 whilst mixing, this lead to people crafting a lot of the swords, aiming for the best +1's, then socketting and enhancing them to suit the builds or to the person ordering a specific item.

It would also allow drops to be done more interestingly, and give the economy a bit more of an interesting side.

we could also give the NPCs some of these items to give them a price floor, whilst also making all makeable variations and drop variations superior, to give people incentive to trade and hunt, but give people a chance to get good items, but not give them the best variants.

I would also say, warlocks idea of a roll stone, to reroll the items stats would make things interesting, giving a chance of better (or worse) rolls for the item. I would have it usable without mixing, but give the roll chance a bit better if done through mixing opposed to just applied.

I would also say this would allow us to let players repair armour, but only let them repair generally to the tier below the previous versions (with the NPC one never changing, and tier 5 never changing), but if done by tankel throws the dice to give a chance of it repairing to a higher version.

It just gives us an oppurtunity to make it a bit more interesting to play, make the economy a bit more interesting.

I'd say this is worth it after perks, as it gives us a very solid, improved groundwork to expand upon.

i would also say that all current items should be Tier 3, or if we need to diversify them, Tier 2-4

It would take a lot of programming and work, but it gets us to a better position than the slightly rudimentary system we do have atm.

#2 Learner

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 10:52 AM

Keep in mind that currently this would take creating every single item & tier combination manually item the items.def file before even thinking about how the tiers are implemented and how items get to/from tiers. That also mean your storage would use a lot more slots which could push people very quickly to get Premium.

#3 butler

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 11:37 AM

reasonably, this would mean that people get more slots and then move premium up to the equivalent point

#4 mugen

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Posted 17 July 2017 - 05:14 PM

This would be good, would give less "rich" players a chance to use SerpSwords and IronSets etc

#5 butler

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Posted 29 July 2017 - 04:56 PM

I thought I might give an expanded response to learners reply

View PostLearner, on 17 July 2017 - 10:52 AM, said:

Keep in mind that currently this would take creating every single item & tier combination manually item the items.def file
I do appreciate that, however, i would argue the groundwork of making a better system for such an system would be worth it for giving some additional variety, expanding drops, and making crafting more interesting, and diversifying the economy a bit more. Also at this stage, making that sort of groundwork would be beneficial, before more items are added.

View PostLearner, on 17 July 2017 - 10:52 AM, said:

before even thinking about how the tiers are implemented and how items get to/from tiers.
I'd say the way to do that would be
Crafting: Number of those items you've made combined with the level you are at
Drops based on CL
and NPCs given a different inferior version.
Would also be beneficial to services like Tankels by giving more than 2 outcomes.

View PostLearner, on 17 July 2017 - 10:52 AM, said:

That also mean your storage would use a lot more slots which could push people very quickly to get Premium.
As previously mentioned, that's easily fixed by looking at the number of slots this would inflate us to, compared to an equivalent situation, and work out a reasonable and similiar level for a premium sto.

I'd also say that really only weapons/armours would work be worth doing in this at this point with the possible exception of potions




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