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New Idea for in game - Subcategories

new idea subcategories developement

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#1 EatsAllLife

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Posted 14 April 2015 - 08:27 PM

Hi, EatsAllLife here!

In game I was thinking to bring a newer experience for everyone, that there could be SUBcategories.
The subcategories could be lets say, under magic, there is the origin skill, magic, which could be the level required for the subcategory, for the subcategory lets say -

Magic -

Example 1 - Heal, as an example, the more you use it, that sub category gains more experience, and it can level up, until there is a max level for it, with each level, it grants more health gain, and and less mana?
Example 2 - Poison, for poison you could have it where it would with each sub-level, there could be more range for the spell, more power, with a longer lasting effect.
Example 3 - Each subcategory can have a max out level with more power, bones to gold maybe, each bone, can get more gold as the levels get higher
Example 4 - Shield lasts longer, costs less mana, makes less reagents used, etc
Example 5 - Also of course, tired of walking? Teleport to range - You can go further, over things - on top, etc.
ALSO! The higher the levels in subcategory the less they fail, at MAX level, its no fail!

Weapons -

You could have a certain thing on weapons, like enhancement, or addition to the weapon, or upgrading the weapon into better stats.

Example 1 - You have a sword, low stats, but you want to make it better, you can use all the items used to make it, and mix together again with the sword, and it will increase the stats to double, or lets say you have half of the items, mix them in, half the stats boosted, whatever you do with the items, go in and make that part of the sword better. Of course it can fail, and maybe have a crit fail too.
Example 2 - You want to add things to the sword, like a perk almost, you can take an enriched essense to the sword, and maybe have an enriched health essense to go in and add healing to the sword, kinda like an MoL

Armor -

You can add certain enhancements to a certain piece of armor, like torso's add special items or add more things, pockets for EMU, more things tro be added, or combine certain pieces of armor to make a whole new thing!

Example 1 - You have augmented armor and have some leather you can use needle and thread to add pockets for more carrying space! It can add maybe 10 EMU Each armor piece.

Example 2 - You have an MoL and MoM - You can mix these two together with some of the pieces, like gold medallion with the two together, and it can make a Medallion of Life and Mana (MoLaM or MoLM)

Example 3 - You want certain armors to add more Cold guarding or heat guard, get certain parts under the armor needed, and add that in to get the goal, it will add more EMU to the item but will have benefits.

Example 4 - You have some left-over essenses, you can fuse a few essenses in with a certain piece of armor and have the armor gain what they do, but at a small add on - like a health essense - put 10 HE in, mix it with the piece of armor, it adds in 5% chance to be healed, then next add in 20, It will push it to 10% chance to be healed - etc.

Essences - Fusion/Merging

You have a few essences for the same spell, well if the spell requires the three, why not be able to merge them into one thing, and have for later? It can crit fail, but you will lose both essences.

Example 1 - You have the remote heal, and have Magic essence and Health essence and take the two and merge together to make A Health and Magic essence mix, it weighs the same as one ME or HE, but is just one spot and works only for that spell.

Example 2 - You are trying to do a spell more times, you can have it on continue until full, with the essence, then so you don't have to wait the 2 seconds, it will just Auto-heal until full - using the essence but when seperate it doesn't allow it. Also, you can crit fail and lose both essences.


Books crafting
You have knowledge and there are books in game, If you have read a book, there can be a way to craft the book for a certain amount of paper, and leather to make a book. You can give a use to Hawk feathers/Facon/Cockatrice Feathers, they can be made into Quills, and have somewhere to crush blueberries or something to make ink. Then lets say the pages amount is the research points, each page can be made from wood logs, and each log can make 10 pages of paper, each 10 papers can weigh maybe 1 EMU so 100 papers is 10 EMU 1000 is 100, etc, but only certain books can be made, no special books like Swords of fire and all, and no super rare, only basic books. You also have to have 1 of the materials to make the books.

Example 1 - You just read Iron Harvesting you now have the knowledge to ------ now what? You can harvest and all, but why can't we pass on knowledge to others - books writing. 1 piece of Iron with --- pages and Ink and quill, mix, viola! You have just crafted Book of Iron Harvesting! +10 CRA EXP.

Is this a good idea from the examples I gave? Let me know! Thanks!

*ALERT*  I WILL BE COMING UP WITH MORE!!! AS I HAVE BEEN! *ALERT* So keep posted :) EDIT'S POSTED AT BOTTOM
EatsAllLife
:lol:

(If you need more examples, comment and I will add into the thread :))

Edits -

April, 14th, 2015 - Magic
April, 17th, 2015 - Weapons
April, 22nd, 2015 - Armor, and Fusion(aka. Merging)
May, 4th, 2015 - Books writing (under crafting)

Edited by EatsAllLife, 04 May 2015 - 10:50 AM.


#2 GypsyNomad

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Posted 14 April 2015 - 08:33 PM

Yes please on more examples but I like the concept

#3 EatsAllLife

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Posted 14 April 2015 - 09:04 PM

Alright Thanks for feedback

#4 Warlock

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Posted 14 April 2015 - 09:44 PM

Well, Learner is already reworking magic as far as we know, let's see how it all turns out first.

And it also seems like magic is the only skill this 'subcategory' thing could *possibly* work with, so lets just see what L does first

#5 butler

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Posted 15 April 2015 - 02:59 AM

mm, sounds similar to an idea which HadeS proposed, where you gain proficiency in certain skills by continually using them. His example was say, repeated use of an axe made you proficient with one, same with battle hammers, short swords, long swords, great swords, boxing and staves, and when dual wielding is added, that. Magic, this could quite easily be the spells or even the specific type of damage, depending on how you split it up. Summoning it could be the type of beast you summon, say bears/dogs/cats/rodents/birds/etc. Range, entirely depends on how it's dealt with. Defence, it could be to do with defending with staves/shields/weapon only/dual weapons/hands only.

As soon as you lengthen the distance of spells, you can quite easily unbalance them. Just consider any type of proficiency will require making things still balanced, so it doesn't end up like some spells or other features did in EL. You want to give an advantage, but you don't want to make it OP.

my 2 pennies (rub them together for luck).

#6 winter

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Posted 15 April 2015 - 09:56 AM

EAL, nice brainstorming! that sort of thinking that makes the game better.

I think all/most of the skills could be subclassed, if that is what we wanted to do.  Manu: armors vs weapons for instance.

That said, IMO the skill are already breaking it down appropriately, and leveling the skill is the thing that allows you to "make it", "cast it" or "hit it" easier... so tho I'm glad for the brainstorming, I don't think this particular idea is necessary.

NOW - is it possible that leveling up could also change things like the mana cost of spells, or food required to mix or whatever?  I think that would be just fine.  If we wanted skill level or attribute to affect things like how we mix or cast, some things could just take effect, like mana or food cost.  Other things like required resources could even be affected if we had a system of recipes (see this topic) in place in game.

I could go on but will cut it there for now :D

#7 EatsAllLife

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Posted 15 April 2015 - 10:25 AM

I was also thinking along the lines with weapons but how would you level them up, maybe an enhancement feature to  add a certain thing to them, like mana, healing, or maybe more damage, etc. I will add that in also.

#8 butler

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Posted 16 April 2015 - 09:54 AM

View Postwinter, on 15 April 2015 - 09:56 AM, said:

EAL, nice brainstorming! that sort of thinking that makes the game better.

I think all/most of the skills could be subclassed, if that is what we wanted to do.  Manu: armors vs weapons for instance.
mm, things like that could be divided into chain armour, plate, leather/fur, sheilds, creating blades, etc.

Quote

That said, IMO the skill are already breaking it down appropriately, and leveling the skill is the thing that allows you to "make it", "cast it" or "hit it" easier... so tho I'm glad for the brainstorming, I don't think this particular idea is necessary.
The attraction here is that subdividing within skills rewards builds (and means that those with loyalty to their build are rewarded, and can be, apart from the skills picked up playing that build for an extended time, have an advantage over someone who swaps builds continually). Some builds make you do a lot of certain things to succeed, and it would be nice to be better at them than other people. It means you level the skills normally in very different ways as well (such an example would be me vs DueCE in Magic, where nearly all of my exp is from restores thanks to my build, and he probably has done a lot more remote heals and LDing than me). That means we focus on different sets of skills, and we really ought to be rewarded more specifically for that. Another example would be me vs GypsyNomad in terms of crafting. He's done a lot more in medallions and rings than i have, so he might be able to conserve more food while mixing them, or fail less, while I have mixed vials for a looooong time, so i might be able to do the same there.

It also gives a deeper level of strategy, while still allowing you to change about.

View PostEatsAllLife, on 15 April 2015 - 10:25 AM, said:

I was also thinking along the lines with weapons but how would you level them up, maybe an enhancement feature to  add a certain thing to them, like mana, healing, or maybe more damage, etc. I will add that in also.
Very small changes can have great impacts. Imagine a little cut off cd, or a few mana points chopped off. Now that would make quite the difference in intense fighting.

This is one of those ideas I like, because the premise is relatively simple, and is understandable, but it does have to prospects of add strategy, and gives another level of complexity to the game. Makes things more interesting.

This is however coming from someone who loves strategy RPG.

#9 EatsAllLife

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Posted 16 April 2015 - 10:45 AM

Of course that's what makes it fun. So, I was thinking if we added that in, we could get it more advanced and more unique so people can't predict by loking at you of your power. Different secrets makes a better benefit and definately more fun for everyone. Especially with the less fails or less food consumption :)

#10 butler

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Posted 17 April 2015 - 09:24 AM

mm, but we would need to think about it quite extensively, and balance it, so that the advantages are noticeable, but not ludicrous. Balancing is not a talent of mine, but we do have some people who are rather exceptional at it.

One thing I should add, this would be far easier to do once we've made all the major changes we want, especially things like magic/range/summoning/dual wielding/perks/mixing/etc. If you add this early on, I can quite easily see it becoming a long nightmare to work out with such large updates.

#11 winter

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Posted 17 April 2015 - 11:42 AM

Regarding Butler's last two posts - absolutely I understand and agree that someone who does the same thing all the time could/should be better at THAT over the long run than someone else who levels in a different way.  I could argue it to some extent, but let's assume that to be the case.  Moreover, I DO appreciate your desire to specialize - something I would like to see more of in the game (and something that some other players rail against).

I agree fully with your next assertion that the other game enhancements need to be worked out prior to considering how this topic might affect the game.  

I see this as something that may have more personal or RP relevance than it will actually benefit the character's ability.  That IS an important thing in the game for folks who play it like you (Butler) and I do, and less important for many other players.

This is more of a fine tuning thing.  Many char development choices can take the char broadly in one direction or another.  This thing would be used to nudge the char a tad a bit more.

#12 EatsAllLife

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Posted 18 April 2015 - 10:01 AM

View Postwinter, on 17 April 2015 - 11:42 AM, said:

Regarding Butler's last two posts - absolutely I understand and agree that someone who does the same thing all the time could/should be better at THAT over the long run than someone else who levels in a different way.  I could argue it to some extent, but let's assume that to be the case.  Moreover, I DO appreciate your desire to specialize - something I would like to see more of in the game (and something that some other players rail against).

I agree fully with your next assertion that the other game enhancements need to be worked out prior to considering how this topic might affect the game.  

I see this as something that may have more personal or RP relevance than it will actually benefit the character's ability.  That IS an important thing in the game for folks who play it like you (Butler) and I do, and less important for many other players.

This is more of a fine tuning thing.  Many char development choices can take the char broadly in one direction or another.  This thing would be used to nudge the char a tad a bit more.

True of course, dual wielding though? That'd be pretty sweet and you could level up the swords on each hand o rthe combo's with it?

#13 butler

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Posted 19 April 2015 - 02:23 AM

Dual wielding is a planned update already, as far as I know.

#14 EatsAllLife

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Posted 19 April 2015 - 06:09 PM

That'd be awesome

#15 EatsAllLife

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 03:56 AM

Bump.

#16 winter

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 04:33 AM

LOL, bumping isn't necessary I think... if we all bumped all the good ideas that we wanted in place, there'd be many more "bump" posts every day.  See the post(s) on making priorities to see how (we hope) development will be focused... whiiiich - Dual wielding was not on the latest list... of course the lists in the forums, other than L's, are just the community's way of trying to get our heads around what is coming, and have little bearing on reality.

#17 butler

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Posted 29 July 2015 - 03:19 PM

Eats, we have no rules against Necroing, so bumping is only really necessary in the Market subforum.

Winter- As to dual wielding, that has been mentioned as an update to follow reworks of magic and range, and has, from the impressions I have, got more certainty than other reworks alluded to such as summoning. I am confident to a good degree this is something that has been planned and planned since before I joined or there abouts and certainly before yourself and eats arrived.

Issue is that updates, if we want a good system, are all going to be very much interconnected. Range/Magic will need to serve different ends and not be unbalanced with combat. Of course, so does dual combat. And every one of them impacts on equipment, which impacts on mixing, which will change the demands of what's harvested and what's hunted, which obviously means you need to think about killing difficulty and how to kill these beasts so the ings can be gained and yup full circle. That's what we should aim for. A very tight system, where everything leans on everything else. What would be lovely is if a layer of complexity, much like these subcategories are added for tactical thinking and decision making, but we must make them simple enough to understand, complex enough for mastery to be advantageous and a cause if imaginative thinking, but not so much that we can't keep the balance between all game components and bring the lot down to the ground.

Okay, I rambled again. I'm officially back then o/

#18 winter

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Posted 30 July 2015 - 06:53 AM

Feeling better Butler :D

I was simply pointing out that it was not on our last list... either no one remembered it or decided it wasn't worth bringing up.

(I know we've covered this ground before, but it's worth responding) I absolutely agree that everything should fit together like a finely crafted clock. That's an untimate goal to be achieved at some distant time.  In the meantime, game elements will be added one by one (or multiple at a time is good too)... each perturbing the previous game imbalance in another direction, but hopefully each will add a level of equilibrium.  This process I imagine is sort of like watching the spin of a top in reverse time.  Very wobbly at first and gradually righting itself.





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