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PK maps in the Dwarven Lands


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#1 Kiwi06

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Posted 13 April 2016 - 06:43 AM

This topic might belong somewhere else (not sure).

Okay. Since we're kind of trying to go all out with the Dwarven Lands and put content for every player, it only just now dawned on me that we should also include PK. Actually, I only remembered when I was looking at current locations for certain harvestables and some are only found in PK.

So, we of course are going to need some PK maps for the Dwarven Lands, and I have had exactly zero plans for PK in the Dwarven Lands until today.

I know most of yall probably know nothing about the current story/map design. I plan to fix that with a little post in the near future with locations descriptions. You can still put forth ideas!

From a story standpoint, I can only really see there being an "arena" in Lothend and perhaps inside Thunder Mountain. Lothend one would be similar to the WSC one.

Now deep in some caves there might be some lawlessness due to orcs, goblins, etc. Gotta fend for yourselves down there. There might be a few opportunities for PK caves down deep underground on some maps.

Other than that, the lands are pretty tame (no TD here). The only map I could imagine being anything close to PK would be Valunde in the north. At this point in the story, it is highly contested between orcs, Dwarves, Humans, and wildlife. But I wouldn't want the whole map to be PK. There are certain points where civility/fear of the other factions would stop people from fighting close by. I am not sure how to accomplish this.

Please provide your 2 cents. Are these all good ideas? What makes a good PK area? How many kinds/types of PK are there? What are arenas for?

#2 AlddrA

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Posted 13 April 2016 - 11:20 AM

These are all great ideas in my estimates Kiwi.....that should be enough pk to please the limited pk populace in OL at this time:)

#3 SimAnt

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Posted 13 April 2016 - 06:34 PM

I was thinking of a medium size map underground with some ruined cities in cave system. As it is a ruined city, it is a lawless area that is PK. It can attract traffic by providing specific (TBD) resources as well as allow easy access to other maps of the continent. Each city would have slightly different setup. Some may be multi combat, some may have heat/cold/radiation damage, some may have no magic allowed (dwarven experiment gone wrong) , some may be like td with low cool down. To access the other maps you would have to go through at least 1 of these cities.


Mobs would be nothing aggressive in this map. Some snakes, rats, or the like.

#4 Caliphear

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Posted 13 April 2016 - 06:39 PM

Not to be rude, but..... If I wanted to play a game where you had little to or no pk (like will happen if you bury pk maps) I would go back to el. Seriously this is the problem in both games. Because Pk'ers are such a "small population" we will just omit or stick something in deep underground or out of the way because it doesn't fit in with my story........ UGH and I thought it would be different here.

When doing anything you need to think of ALL players. And so far these ideas about PK are a slap in the face tbh.
What happened to this being community driven and not development driven like it was supposed to be? actually let me save that one for a new post.

Sims idea is in the right direction.

#5 DueCE

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Posted 13 April 2016 - 07:25 PM

PK should be embraced, not thrown under a rug!

Hey hey now... something tells me maybe this is the first time that Kiwi has ventured off in to a sub forum titled "PK Changes..."

Really though some good ideas in the air today.  I see where Kiwi is coming from and keep in mind Kiwi has a lead role in developing our lore/quests/story which would may need to be adjusted or expanded on with further PK discussions.  Taking a step back however, I think PK is a large part of any mmorpg and we need to consider it no matter how many players dislike/avoid it.

View PostCaliphear, on 13 April 2016 - 06:39 PM, said:

Not to be rude, but..... If I wanted to play a game where you had little to or no pk (like will happen if you bury pk maps) I would go back to el.

As an avid PKer, I have to agree with Cali here with the idea of "burying" PK (literally).  Simply put, I don't think it's a good idea.  Many players who currently play this game, and more importantly those who come in the future, will build their character with the intention of PKing, and we will be closing a door on those players if there are no outside PK maps.  To the best of my knowledge OL is meant to be different from EL, and I know there's not much PK in OL, but I believe a separate and higher level discussion is needed regarding 'PK in OL' if we are going bury the pk areas.  If a player comes to OL with any preconception of how PK used to be in EL, we will be hurting ourself by reducing the number of PK areas that exist.

Remember that teamwork is the more desirable backbone to competitive pking.

#6 Caliphear

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Posted 13 April 2016 - 07:57 PM

View PostDueCE, on 13 April 2016 - 07:25 PM, said:

PK should be embraced, not thrown under a rug!

Hey hey now... something tells me maybe this is the first time that Kiwi has ventured off in to a sub forum titled "PK Changes..."

Really though some good ideas in the air today.  I see where Kiwi is coming from and keep in mind Kiwi has a lead role in developing our lore/quests/story which would may need to be adjusted or expanded on with further PK discussions.  Taking a step back however, I think PK is a large part of any mmorpg and we need to consider it no matter how many players dislike/avoid it.

View PostCaliphear, on 13 April 2016 - 06:39 PM, said:

Not to be rude, but..... If I wanted to play a game where you had little to or no pk (like will happen if you bury pk maps) I would go back to el.

As an avid PKer, I have to agree with Cali here with the idea of "burying" PK (literally).  Simply put, I don't think it's a good idea.  Many players who currently play this game, and more importantly those who come in the future, will build their character with the intention of PKing, and we will be closing a door on those players if there are no outside PK maps.  To the best of my knowledge OL is meant to be different from EL, and I know there's not much PK in OL, but I believe a separate and higher level discussion is needed regarding 'PK in OL' if we are going bury the pk areas.  If a player comes to OL with any preconception of how PK used to be in EL, we will be hurting ourself by reducing the number of PK areas that exist.

Remember that teamwork is the more desirable backbone to competitive pking.


Yes, sorry kiwi I did go a little overboard there on you which isn't what I meant to do. Luckily I have Duece to translate :P

#7 Kiwi06

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Posted 13 April 2016 - 07:58 PM

Great ideas, Simant. Those are the kinds of things I was thinking of. Great input :D

View PostCaliphear, on 13 April 2016 - 06:39 PM, said:

Not to be rude, but..... If I wanted to play a game where you had little to or no pk (like will happen if you bury pk maps) I would go back to el.

We are not talking about the entire game here. We are talking about a region about 1/7th of the entire continent. Do you get mad that there isn't pk in WS, PL, or MM? Or that NC has "buried" PK areas with their caves and arenas? Then you shouldn't be angry here. There ARE outside PK maps written into the story and the rest of the continent. If we weren't thinking of ALL of the players, this topic wouldn't exist.

#8 Warlock

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Posted 14 April 2016 - 04:25 AM

View PostAlddrA, on 13 April 2016 - 11:20 AM, said:

These are all great ideas in my estimates Kiwi.....that should be enough pk to please the limited pk populace in OL at this time:)

No, absolutely not lol... bad way to think also ald. How on earth can we get fun from 'hey bro, i wanna PK, lets 1v1 in this little gay arena and waste unlimited resorces for nothing'
it's all about those little sneak attacks on unsuspecting folks.
11 new maps, I would like to see 2 of those be FULL PK maps. Would also like to see better spawns on these PK maps, make it worth while to train there, same scenario as TD, go there for uber exp on the cycs at your own risk
Dont think we should develop the game solely on Kiwi's story telling... come on

#9 Learner

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Posted 14 April 2016 - 04:30 AM

I personally think that a larger percentage of full maps overall should be PK then compared to EL.The higher the level the mobs, the higher the percentage is PK. Then let the players sort it out if they want to actually PK or not.

#10 AlddrA

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Posted 14 April 2016 - 07:22 AM

How many pk maps are there in OL atm?   Quite a few.   How many ppl pk on a regular basis?  Very few to none.  It has been a long time I have seen the pk message. There is the odd player that will log in challenging anyone to a  pvp getting no takers, just bickering back and forth.  How else was I supposed to answer that post?  My comment was based on observations derived from the present populace.  

I am not a pk player nor will I ever be.

#11 Warlock

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Posted 14 April 2016 - 07:47 AM

Just because you are not a PKer, does not mean u will never get PKed.

#12 Warlock

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Posted 14 April 2016 - 07:56 AM

and also, alot of kills have been through magic(u dont see a PK message when someone gets killed by magic)

View PostKiwi06, on 13 April 2016 - 06:43 AM, said:

This topic might belong somewhere else (not sure).

Okay. Since we're kind of trying to go all out with the Dwarven Lands and put content for every player, it only just now dawned on me that we should also include PK. Actually, I only remembered when I was looking at current locations for certain harvestables and some are only found in PK.

Right now, people mainly go to TD for the decreased cooldown, and huge exp at cyc spawn. Infact, is there even anything that gets harvested in TD? dont think so

#13 Caliphear

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Posted 14 April 2016 - 08:25 AM

Agree with learner. Just like people training in TD take the risk of being PK'd, even non pk players train there. Just because we don't attack certain people doesn't mean we cant. and vise versa. So pk maps doesn't mean you will always be killed.

Alddra it seems only a few pk because there are only a few players period.  And you have to think for the future players. Not just the small group we have now. .

Warlock there a few harvestable items in TD but other maps have the same thing and are more conveinient. Which brngs up the point there should be a pk map where something should only be available there to harvest. sort of like hydro route.

#14 AlddrA

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Posted 14 April 2016 - 08:59 AM

View PostWarlock, on 14 April 2016 - 07:47 AM, said:

Just because you are not a PKer, does not mean u will never get PKed.

Fully aware that I could/would get pk'd even though I am non-pk'er.   Did not mean to offend or discourage pk in the least.    My comment was solely based on the player base......tbh, did not take into consideration the future players or how the lack of pk maps in OL would discourage them.

#15 Kiwi06

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Posted 14 April 2016 - 09:46 AM

2 full pk maps would be more than the current OL percentage. I think with the amount of underground PK and making Valunde PK, we would actually have MORE PK in the Dwarven Lands than in Seridia. I think you're underestimating the amount of underground there is going to be. Imagine TD, but underground. That's basically what we're talking here. And that will probably be full PK. Overall there will probably be more PK area than there is now. So no need to bitch about how that's not enough.

View PostWarlock, on 14 April 2016 - 07:56 AM, said:

and also, alot of kills have been through magic(u dont see a PK message when someone gets killed by magic)

View PostKiwi06, on 13 April 2016 - 06:43 AM, said:

This topic might belong somewhere else (not sure).

Okay. Since we're kind of trying to go all out with the Dwarven Lands and put content for every player, it only just now dawned on me that we should also include PK. Actually, I only remembered when I was looking at current locations for certain harvestables and some are only found in PK.

Right now, people mainly go to TD for the decreased cooldown, and huge exp at cyc spawn. Infact, is there even anything that gets harvested in TD? dont think so

Wolframite, Dvarium, Turquoise, Hydrogenium. These are the PK harvestables I'm talking about. I am looking toward the future of these harvestables, just as we're looking toward the future of PK maps. Just because no one mines them now, doesn't mean there won't be in the future. Same for PKers.

#16 Holosko

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Posted 14 April 2016 - 11:26 AM

At least people don't go AFK while harvesting in a PK maps.

#17 BlakKat

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Posted 14 April 2016 - 01:08 PM

I see a lot of whining here .... anyway I searched all posts involving "kill". The only PK related post I found was on a PK-training map (http://www.other-lif...kill#entry13217). So as DueCE said some discussion is needed. Here are some additional threads I was able to find: http://www.other-lif...duelling-in-ol/, http://www.other-lif...le-td-cooldown/, http://www.other-lif...ish-or-pr0nezz/, http://www.other-lif.../79-kf-changes/, http://www.other-lif...03-pvp-pk-gear/)

I think that just adding more PK maps won't do. The question is what can be done better than in other games? It seems that in EL lots of things have been tried and none of them seems to have worked, at least judging by all the complaints. Maybe, somebody who knows the history and phases PK in EL has gone through better than me can summarize it and draw some conclusions.

The ideas on how to make PK more interesting I have seen so far were to add unique resources to PK maps as well as good a/d training opportunities. I also think that access from UW should not take too long and that a storage should be on the way.

Other questions to consider: Should there, or should there not be multiple points of entry? Should we keep global PK-messages? Drop vs non- or reduced drop?

One thing which we should address if placing unique resources to a PK map is to make sure that no single player (or small group) can control access fully. I think the hydro-situation in EL has caused a lot of grievance.

For the record, I am with Kiwi on that there should be a reasonable fit into the overall game structure. For instance, a map ruled by a "responsible" Dwarven Lord should not be PK unless we implement some sort of jail/punishment system. Therefore Valunde appears the obvious candidate for an outside PK area. There are also other areas planned where evil mob are walking abroad. I imagine that some of those could be also PK as the government is clearly not doing its job there ... that would go along with what learner said earlier that maps with more dangerous mob is more likely PK.

#18 Learner

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Posted 14 April 2016 - 01:11 PM

Of course foe PK more will need to be done, having more PK maps is simple one of many steps that will be needed.

#19 themuntdregger

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Posted 14 April 2016 - 02:40 PM

Yesterday I killed a bear. It's wasn't a logical reaction or born out of any necessity. I killed it just by accident. The second was less of an accident and the third was more or less deliberate. However that's fairly usual when you're a troll. Even so, after having killed a hat-trick of bear, there was no sense of achievement or right of passage.

My thoughts merely turned to bear skin and its various commercial uses.

#20 CoduX

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Posted 14 April 2016 - 08:11 PM

Here's a thought. If you're whining about PK or PK maps or too much PK maps or being PK'ed, then don't go there..
Nobody is forcing your character to walk there. Like Cali stated about, you're taking the risk yourself.

There should be more PK maps definitely to be honest, because it runs well with the story. I would recommend two partial/full maps in Dwarven lands that is PK would be ideal, as well as the underground. Take it from somebody that has been (or trying to) PK for almost 4 years now.




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