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Travel in the new Dwarven land

travel teleport rings

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#1 BlakKat

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Posted 02 May 2016 - 10:45 PM

As Zian is making rapid progress with the maps, we need some discussion on how about to organize travel through Alroth and through the Dwarven lands specifically.

A couple of ideas:
  • Stick to the EL-way, a new portals room, ships and rings.

  • Stick to the EL-way, but with a new portals room: Make a smaller scale map of the whole continent. Use two spells, one to reach there, one to then teleport back to the real world when positioned.

  • Ships, rings, and short-cuts, add teleport hubs (located on "real" maps for really long distance travel.
One thing to keep in mind is that the Dwarven land maps are smaller than many of the maps in Seridia. In particular, I estimate the total of all outside maps
of the Dwarven lands to be only twice the size of Whitestone. Therefore, I think that a portals room is really an overkill.

So off we go and here are my two cents:

From a more general perspective, each race could have their own (preferred) travel methods: Draegoni, Gnomes and Elves use telepads, humans/orcs use carts, Dwarves tunnels (underground carts). All use ships. I would imagine that ships and a limited amount of telepads would allow long distance travel to selected maps (maybe on the order of 2 or 3 telepad-maps for the Dwarven lands). For the Dwarven lands we would have a set of underground short cuts where you would enter a cave and pop up on a non-adjacent map.

#2 Kiwi06

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Posted 03 May 2016 - 12:43 AM

I think rings are too much of a part of the game to get rid of. Crafters gotta craft something!

Portals room spell is fine by me. Story wise, the portal room structure would have been created by the Draegoni.  The places they teleport to would be further away from storages etc in the Dwarven Lands. Dwarves don't trust this system. Having it teleport into a city would be too risky invasion-wise, so they would build away from known portal exits and possibly make reverse fortresses to guard against them.

Telepads would probably not be allowed in the Dwarven Lands for the above reasons. Gnomes being in tune with this type of magic though could mean that a couple of them existing, but story wise, I wanted to keep telepads as a theme for Elven and Draegoni maps.

As far as shortcuts such as clicking a cave and ending up on the other side...sure it is convenient for players, but I would like to add the option for traveling into the actual cave to see what's inside. I wouldn't want to see a lot of "It was a long boring tunnel" type situations. I'd prefer to go into the cave and perhaps be able to ride a cart to the other side faster, or telepads or something of that nature. Something that visually shows a story rather than skipping it.

#3 Learner

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Posted 03 May 2016 - 05:16 AM

For rings, to me it would make sense for plaves that are or were high density population are the ones rings could exist for. places that were high density and are now ruins would be harder to find the lost knowledge. Of course different races might have to bias this concept. For example, a more private race the ting may take you near the gate to a large city while a very open race you might appear in the middle of the city.

#4 Kiwi06

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Posted 03 May 2016 - 06:51 AM

Awesome input, L. Lots of hard to read typos though xD

You're pretty on-point. I think for the Dwarven Lands, the rings would have been crafted mostly by Gnomes, so their rings would probably go to some of the underground places and some of the more populated or magical areas. I can find coords that fit this theme.

#5 Wizzy

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Posted 03 May 2016 - 12:18 PM

Rings could have a random location spawn on map?

#6 Learner

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Posted 03 May 2016 - 12:26 PM

Rings currently have a specific location the send you to, not random.

#7 BlakKat

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Posted 03 May 2016 - 01:39 PM

View PostKiwi06, on 03 May 2016 - 12:43 AM, said:

As far as shortcuts such as clicking a cave and ending up on the other side...sure it is convenient for players, but I would like to add the option for traveling into the actual cave to see what's inside. I wouldn't want to see a lot of "It was a long boring tunnel" type situations. I'd prefer to go into the cave and perhaps be able to ride a cart to the other side faster, or telepads or something of that nature. Something that visually shows a story rather than skipping it.

I like the idea of a ride on a cart, even if you would enter the cave and click there on the the cart. How it would work with telepads we could probably see on IotF where a couple of telepads connect to other maps in EL.


Yes, rings should be definitely part of it. Having them spawn you at random locations might get interesting, but since the maps are so small I think it won't make a big difference (unless you end up in a trap), or is there something more?

#8 Kiwi06

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Posted 03 May 2016 - 04:18 PM

Braigor ring would be utterly hilarious.

#9 Learner

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Posted 05 May 2016 - 09:43 AM

Grimm & I had been discussing the possibility to add an entry the the maps .def file to associate it with a 'race' for the sake of the server, including the 6 player races or a wild/mob category. That has future possibilities for adding special definitions for each of those Realms. That also means we could in theory make rings that transport you to random maps in a Realm!

#10 AlddrA

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Posted 05 May 2016 - 10:09 AM

My 2cents, not enthused with having a ring just teleport you randomly to any map withing a specific realm.   You could end up in the middle of some aggressive mobs which of course is still possible atm during invasions with specific ring locations on maps.

You guys probably won't agree with this, but what about rings that work like a teleport room?  I know some games have a scroll or even tele spot where you can name your destination from a list of choices.

Or an NPC on each map that would tele you for a fee to a map of your choice?

#11 Learner

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Posted 05 May 2016 - 10:18 AM

Oh, we'll still have stuff you have more control of :)

#12 themuntdregger

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Posted 05 May 2016 - 11:13 AM

Myself, I do craft rings (apologies for the Welsh grammar) for my own fun. The damn things rarely sell unless some nublet has a witless desire to pokemon them all. Even so, "one ring does not a summer make".  Sometimes I do take a ring on an invasion just in case it's necessary to bail with urgency. Fluffy gargoyles would be a good example but, tackling anything other than 'Slithering the slippery' really requires the OL equiv of an ejection seat. So, from a player pov, i've not really got any strong opinions except that I should like for shit to be fun.

Yup, tele-rings are quite fun but, the concept isn't realised to its full potential. That's coz we're still influenced (nay weighed down) by so much ancient EL bullshit. If you apply basic rationality, the larger the maps and the more maps you have, the more you will create a demand to travel quickly and conveniently. Yay that (I say) as a demand for rings means 'moar' gc for me and all the other fkin nublets existing at the bottom of OL society. However, even though I am a pauper doesn't make me any less attractive to ladies (provided they be of 'proper' age). So teh pk weanies better be warned that their mothers are hardly safe.

Anyhow, the matter of travel within a mmorpg (let's consider this abstractly), is that it is unavoidable. As per irl, such shit ought reasonably to be a choice whereby the rich get to fly first class, whereas, the poor get to wear out their sandals. I guess if I was Donald Trump I would express it in terms of those that choose to poor get to enjoy the benefits. Alas, i'm actually an old fashioned socialist just slightly left of Leon Trotsky (my personal hero) so please don't mistake my game view for my politics (which ofc is troll).

I guess the point to be made is that balance in the game arises from attaching consequence to shit that is convenient or enjoyable. That consequence may exhibit in terms or time, cost, or otherwise, but we should reasonably expect consequence to arise. Dudes, I implore you.... The shit that you pay in movement will repay a thousand times over in the saving and bullshitery of non-mixables like needles and arrows (curse the twat who ever conceived such econo-cuckoldery).

My personal recommendation (for whatever small shit it may be worth) is to leverage the balance between movement and effort in a way that enables those lower down the shitty pole of aspiration to slither upwards in a myriad of ungainly forms. In this way, new peeps will want to create the abundance of h/e's  srs. brs and sundry other stoofz that they require to elevate themselves to the ultimate level of self-actualisation.

Ok, and before new peeps imagine that this is ridiculous, insulting or simply attention-seeking post, well it actually is. But that is the great thing about OL. We can post whatever we think.

Yay OL I say. For it has much grace.

#13 AlddrA

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Posted 05 May 2016 - 12:01 PM

ok munt, read your post but barely understood any of it.   you are entertaining for sure, but does all that mish mash you wrote actually mean?

#14 themuntdregger

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Posted 05 May 2016 - 01:00 PM

To be fair, it's the ridiculous spouting of an irrelevant idiot.

#15 BlakKat

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Posted 06 May 2016 - 12:09 PM

Trouble is there are tons of good thoughts in there (or maybe just one?), just hard to find them behind all this nice poetry. As it turns out, I found a Thesaurus, such as http://www.thesaurus.com/, an indispensable tool in that quest.

It really gives me the creeps, but I am contemplating to ask munt for advice on how to attempt to port the current models to unity. But the fear that I will not be able to grasp even the most simplest utterances of his sophisticated mind on this most  daunting endeavor hold me back.

#16 CoduX

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Posted 15 May 2016 - 10:18 PM

View Postthemuntdregger, on 05 May 2016 - 11:13 AM, said:

Myself, I do craft rings (apologies for the Welsh grammar) for my own fun. The damn things rarely sell unless some nublet has a witless desire to pokemon them all. Even so, "one ring does not a summer make".  Sometimes I do take a ring on an invasion just in case it's necessary to bail with urgency. Fluffy gargoyles would be a good example but, tackling anything other than 'Slithering the slippery' really requires the OL equiv of an ejection seat. So, from a player pov, i've not really got any strong opinions except that I should like for shit to be fun.

Yup, tele-rings are quite fun but, the concept isn't realised to its full potential. That's coz we're still influenced (nay weighed down) by so much ancient EL bullshit. If you apply basic rationality, the larger the maps and the more maps you have, the more you will create a demand to travel quickly and conveniently. Yay that (I say) as a demand for rings means 'moar' gc for me and all the other fkin nublets existing at the bottom of OL society. However, even though I am a pauper doesn't make me any less attractive to ladies (provided they be of 'proper' age). So teh pk weanies better be warned that their mothers are hardly safe.

Anyhow, the matter of travel within a mmorpg (let's consider this abstractly), is that it is unavoidable. As per irl, such shit ought reasonably to be a choice whereby the rich get to fly first class, whereas, the poor get to wear out their sandals. I guess if I was Donald Trump I would express it in terms of those that choose to poor get to enjoy the benefits. Alas, i'm actually an old fashioned socialist just slightly left of Leon Trotsky (my personal hero) so please don't mistake my game view for my politics (which ofc is troll).

I guess the point to be made is that balance in the game arises from attaching consequence to shit that is convenient or enjoyable. That consequence may exhibit in terms or time, cost, or otherwise, but we should reasonably expect consequence to arise. Dudes, I implore you.... The shit that you pay in movement will repay a thousand times over in the saving and bullshitery of non-mixables like needles and arrows (curse the twat who ever conceived such econo-cuckoldery).

My personal recommendation (for whatever small shit it may be worth) is to leverage the balance between movement and effort in a way that enables those lower down the shitty pole of aspiration to slither upwards in a myriad of ungainly forms. In this way, new peeps will want to create the abundance of h/e's  srs. brs and sundry other stoofz that they require to elevate themselves to the ultimate level of self-actualisation.

Ok, and before new peeps imagine that this is ridiculous, insulting or simply attention-seeking post, well it actually is. But that is the great thing about OL. We can post whatever we think.

Yay OL I say. For it has much grace.
Translated:
I craft rings. Therefore, others may craft them too making them needed. The market of them is pretty poor at this time, but people usually use them in invasions to get out of a tight spot.

'Travel' in an MMORPG is unavoidable because the player must use travel to get from one location to another. There will always be rings as an alternative solution to travel so it is unavoidable that rings will exist in the new continent. This also shows the two major groups of player; 'Rich' people who can make or afford these rings for faster travel using less time walking. Then, there are the more 'poor' type of people who can not afford spells or rings and simply travel by foot.

The main point being addressed here is that balance to the game will rise from people that feel things are more convenient for themselves, but also providing consquence of other people complaining because alas, there is no such thing as a 'perfect game'. There is always be someone complaining about something.

The amount of time and effort and resources into crafting said rings for travel/movement for only a one-time-use, you can be repaid back hundred forth if you used that time and resources into making items such as needles (which don't require much time or resource) or arrows (can't be made yet..not sure why this was said).

My personal recommendation is to apply balance between movement and effort in a way that enables the people that are 'more poor' than the 'rich people' to have the same equality of said travel/movement.
In this way, new players will want to create the abundance of essences and potions and other popular stuff, that they require to make themselves more well known and push into that group of 'rich' players. (not sure how this relates to the comment above but then again, I am merely trying to translate a forum troll)

#17 BlakKat

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Posted 15 May 2016 - 10:29 PM

Thank you very much CoduX. Very much appreciated. So it seems now we need somebody to estimate by how much rings shorten travel times and how much time it takes to make them.

Personally, I actually use magic to travel between the maps because of the magic experience Rings I use only to get out of tight situations, if I have no mana, or if my teleport-essies are unavailable, for instance because they populate a nice DB somewhere where I should not have been but where I very much long to go back to.

#18 Kiwi06

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Posted 16 May 2016 - 01:12 AM

It seems we are going to be keeping portals and rings. Whether we do or not, I'll do a write up of teleport locations for rings and portals based on their layouts in Seridia and try to use a bit of story and storage locations from the Dwarven Lands to lay them out. I already have a file for this.

@Learner - is there anything particular about the way they are laid out in Seridia? Do they have to be in certain types of locations? Is there a particular pattern to them? Would you like to keep that pattern, or should we change it to suit your liking a bit more?

#19 Zian

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Posted 16 May 2016 - 05:56 AM

View PostKiwi06, on 16 May 2016 - 01:12 AM, said:

It seems we are going to be keeping portals and rings. Whether we do or not, I'll do a write up of teleport locations for rings and portals based on their layouts in Seridia and try to use a bit of story and storage locations from the Dwarven Lands to lay them out. I already have a file for this.

@Learner - is there anything particular about the way they are laid out in Seridia? Do they have to be in certain types of locations? Is there a particular pattern to them? Would you like to keep that pattern, or should we change it to suit your liking a bit more?

As we develop the 55+ new Continental maps we'll need to assess travel routes/methods in general to ensure it makes sense.

Regards
Zian

#20 Kiwi06

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Posted 16 May 2016 - 07:43 AM

View PostZian, on 16 May 2016 - 05:56 AM, said:

View PostKiwi06, on 16 May 2016 - 01:12 AM, said:

It seems we are going to be keeping portals and rings. Whether we do or not, I'll do a write up of teleport locations for rings and portals based on their layouts in Seridia and try to use a bit of story and storage locations from the Dwarven Lands to lay them out. I already have a file for this.

@Learner - is there anything particular about the way they are laid out in Seridia? Do they have to be in certain types of locations? Is there a particular pattern to them? Would you like to keep that pattern, or should we change it to suit your liking a bit more?

As we develop the 55+ new Continental maps we'll need to assess travel routes/methods in general to ensure it makes sense.

Regards
Zian

That's why we've made drafts of major and minor ports for ships :). Same can be done for portals and rings. Nothing in stone of course. I hope I've already demonstrated my ability to rework things that don't work ;)





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