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Mob Ignores


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#1 Learner

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Posted 21 November 2016 - 02:03 PM

Currently the OL mob ignores are based on either your Attack level or the old style EL combat logic, time to be thinking about the best way to change this.

The server does have CombalLevel calculations we have put together which we can consider using, but that by itself will not be enough since mob buffs are available and in the future many more mobs with have more variable stats.

One possible solution is to be able to define the IgnoreLevel to be +/-% of the mobs CL. This would allow a mobs ignore to change based on what it's actual stats are. If we were to go down this road, what sort of IgnoreLevel% is reasonable and fair to the mobs?

Do you have other ideas on how to handle this? Now is the time to bounce around and discuss your ideas and thoughts!!!

#2 BlakKat

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Posted 21 November 2016 - 02:14 PM

percent of CL sounds good to me. The actual percentage should be pendent on the creature though. For instance, I would not expect deer to attack any character, while your average Orc might attack somebody whose combat level is actually higher.

It may be also interesting to incorporate some randomness into the percentage, but I am not sure.

An idea I want to bring up is that creatures could make their decision based on how many of their friends are around. I do not know how difficult it would be to implement, but what I envision is that if two or more creatures (such as wolves, imps, orcs,  clops, etc) are in reasonable distance from the character, they should be more likely to attack. I suggest to use bump up CL used to calculate the ignore level by 25% or so.

#3 Grimm

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Posted 21 November 2016 - 04:34 PM

Direction the game is heading, CL comparison is good idea, we still need to convert some mobs to OL based CL, ignore level % ...

Difficult to say a percentage.   For a mob should ignore someone it may know would be a dangerous opponent.  Or try to attack an opponent when it feels it has the upper hand.

Equipment can also effect a player guarantee death to a guarantee survival with low risk.  I've seen people insta-death to mobs ~40 CL higher than them naked, but geared can survive and kill using a BR or two at most.
  (Yes this is not as accurate for high level mobs, The CL bracket shrinks the higher you go thus is why we need to use a %)

Thus it would be nice to maybe consider #arm attributes ie armor stats and weapon stats.  Also would vary for monsters because they can equip gear too.

Maybe even have a non aggressive normal mob become aggressive because of extra confidence with equipped items when comparing ignore levels?

Extra mobs around increasing likeliness to attack, I believe should also vary on whether mobs around are aggressive towards a player, ie a male orc with native non aggressive brown rabbits really wouldn't boost its confidence.  But a male orc with a creature with a weapon  or an creature within 50CL to try to hit you and get away with your attention focused on the big guy would be more likely.  
  Or maybe other creatures getting a +% boost to ignore levels because they have others to assist within the radius. even  100% boost to a brown rabbits ignore level with a weapon equipped still would be too low to engage a player killing male orcs.

But also on that note, IMO with more normal spawns possibly having a boss as we move further into development.  I believe all mobs associated with or around a boss should feel empowered to attack.  
  It's one flaw I feel with td cyc, You can spawn boss, keep horde around with no danger of being attacked standing in the middle of a boss and its horde without green cape.  Also this allows horde to constantly come to you and or surround with no danger or risk.  And continues with this grouping until one decides to kill the boss.  
  I believe this would help in abuse of farming training.  Of course wearing an mm cape for critters that do not ignore mm would keep you safe but there is risk of cape breakage.

IE a boss is brought out because your killing its underlings, I believe all bosses should have no ignores, and thus also the creatures that spawn with it should also feel empowered and have no ignores to help their leader,  
Maybe even a radius around a boss in which any creature would also gain aggressive and no longer ignores to help.

My food for thought,

Grimm

#4 Kiwi06

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Posted 21 November 2016 - 05:00 PM

View PostBlakKat, on 21 November 2016 - 02:14 PM, said:

percent of CL sounds good to me. The actual percentage should be pendent on the creature though. For instance, I would not expect deer to attack any character, while your average Orc might attack somebody whose combat level is actually higher.

It may be also interesting to incorporate some randomness into the percentage, but I am not sure.

An idea I want to bring up is that creatures could make their decision based on how many of their friends are around. I do not know how difficult it would be to implement, but what I envision is that if two or more creatures (such as wolves, imps, orcs,  clops, etc) are in reasonable distance from the character, they should be more likely to attack. I suggest to use bump up CL used to calculate the ignore level by 25% or so.

This is a neat idea. Or also a very small chance for certain mobs to attack. Sometimes people do get mauled by bears, attacked by pumas, or eaten by wolves without attacking them first ;)

#5 Wizzy

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Posted 21 November 2016 - 05:43 PM

How about #ignore be a % of proficiency? Kill 1000 ogres for example and the word spreads through the ogre community. Can be done with achievement badges

#6 CoduX

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Posted 21 November 2016 - 05:44 PM

View PostWizzy, on 21 November 2016 - 05:43 PM, said:

How about #ignore be a % of proficiency? Kill 1000 ogres for example and the word spreads through the ogre community. Can be done with achievement badges
I like this

#7 Learner

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Posted 21 November 2016 - 06:34 PM

View PostWizzy, on 21 November 2016 - 05:43 PM, said:

How about #ignore be a % of proficiency? Kill 1000 ogres for example and the word spreads through the ogre community. Can be done with achievement badges
That means the server must track proficiency on every single mob for every single player. Counters as you see them are client side only and the closest is Radu's Achievements which isn't per mob.

#8 CoduX

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Posted 21 November 2016 - 06:46 PM

View PostGrimm, on 21 November 2016 - 04:34 PM, said:

  It's one flaw I feel with td cyc, You can spawn boss, keep horde around with no danger of being attacked standing in the middle of a boss and its horde without green cape.  Also this allows horde to constantly come to you and or surround with no danger or risk.  And continues with this grouping until one decides to kill the boss.  
I disagree, I've been training hard last few days in td cyc spawn and noticed that not all the cyc followed the boss. I wondered why they didn't respawn even when the boss was the only one left there.
Even though the boss was killed at cyc spawn, a cyc had wandered over that south, it was at the tents near Dragon Cave and had no intention of being 'around' the cyc boss.

I don't know if this is new AI normal behaviour for cyc's or a minor bug, but was annoyed with it that it took off and ignored the usual 'follow the boss'.

#9 Learner

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Posted 21 November 2016 - 06:47 PM

View PostCoduX, on 21 November 2016 - 06:46 PM, said:

View PostGrimm, on 21 November 2016 - 04:34 PM, said:

  It's one flaw I feel with td cyc, You can spawn boss, keep horde around with no danger of being attacked standing in the middle of a boss and its horde without green cape.  Also this allows horde to constantly come to you and or surround with no danger or risk.  And continues with this grouping until one decides to kill the boss.  
I disagree, I've been training hard last few days in td cyc spawn and noticed that not all the cyc followed the boss. I wondered why they didn't respawn even when the boss was the only one left there.
Even though the boss was killed at cyc spawn, a cyc had wandered over that south, it was at the tents near Dragon Cave and had no intention of being 'around' the cyc boss.

I don't know if this is new AI normal behaviour for cyc's or a minor bug, but was annoyed with it that it took off and ignored the usual 'follow the boss'.
There is now more the one Cyclops spawn

#10 Warlock

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Posted 21 November 2016 - 07:28 PM

Hmm, not so sure I like the 'extra confidence' as Grimm posted, its always nice to reach a certain point in the game and be rewarded with creature ignore levels. Think with this we need to just have ignore levels set for OL for each individual creature type, not by attack level or #arm stats, but by CL. And also what G proposed about mobs aggro'ing once the boss is spawned i dont really like, not for TD spawn anyway, as you know it can get very messy once the boss is spawned and would most likely deter people training at times

Quote

There is now more the one Cyclops spawn

Does this mean there could be 2 bosses?

#11 Learner

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Posted 21 November 2016 - 07:35 PM

*whistles innocently*

#12 Warlock

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Posted 21 November 2016 - 07:36 PM

Maybe make any boss aggro at all times, regardless of CL/levels

#13 Grimm

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Posted 21 November 2016 - 07:48 PM

View PostKiwi06, on 21 November 2016 - 05:00 PM, said:

Sometimes people do get mauled by bears, attacked by pumas, or eaten by wolves without attacking them first ;)

yep didn't think about that in non aggro to aggro, would suck for noob or Alddra to be attack randomly and unsuspectingly by bears in NC

View PostWarlock, on 21 November 2016 - 07:36 PM, said:

Maybe make any boss aggro at all times, regardless of CL/levels

yep that is what i meant by the first part of boss aggro regardless of creature ignore suggestions

As for spawn aggro with boss, easy way around would be MM cape since it's not an invaded creature, and yes does provide chance of getting messy. That was my intent. To Not make it so easy or boring and allow interest to utilize going after other spawns.  But also means more critical thinking while making high level spawns in future.

Maybe just add a % to creatures ignore level while boss is spawned?  this way if yours is high enough you still get ignored by horde but attacked by boss?

#14 Grimm

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Posted 22 November 2016 - 01:12 PM

should magic offense/defense be considered in CL calc?

#15 AlddrA

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Posted 22 November 2016 - 03:15 PM

Only if it applies to players too.

#16 Learner

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Posted 22 November 2016 - 03:30 PM

One thing I'm trying to do is have the CL formula apply to players & mobs identically.

#17 Kiwi06

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Posted 29 November 2016 - 09:42 PM

I think magic level and attributes should be part of CL. But not if it's not implemented yet ;)

#18 ohmygod

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Posted 16 January 2019 - 04:12 AM

I see that mchims and even feros have a different type of mechanic and actually make a roll to see if they will attack you or something which is cool feature at times. The mchim do not always decide to attack and even if you have high level and normally  "ignored" by them the fero may decide to attack you on rare occasions.

#19 Learner

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Posted 16 January 2019 - 04:34 AM

View Postohmygod, on 16 January 2019 - 04:12 AM, said:

I see that mchims and even feros have a different type of mechanic and actually make a roll to see if they will attack you or something which is cool feature at times. The mchim do not always decide to attack and even if you have high level and normally  "ignored" by them the fero may decide to attack you on rare occasions.
As far as I know there is no toll involved, but the mobs only check at certain when they are trying to decide what to do next and when they are moving or asleep you can slip past them. Otherwise when they are checking they evaluate players within their aggro range to see if they are to be ignored or not. Yes, each type of mob can have it's own aggro range and invasion mobs have a larger aggro range then normal ones.

#20 ohmygod

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Posted 16 January 2019 - 05:54 AM

Ah ok, i should have mentioned that the native spawns seem to have this behavior. Fero cave i have been teamed by another one but thinking through it now, it may have been because they have variable stats?,especially if there has been no changes to ignore or mob mechanics.  MChims i just may be extra lucky during invasions then as they dont seem to attack me every time they walk past or near me. I been watching them closely because they hurt a lot.




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