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Perk System - Perks to choose from


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#21 blar32

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Posted 27 February 2017 - 08:32 PM

I like these ideas. Not sure which perks I'd take yet prolly a mix of the fighting and mixing. Would prolly SR a few times to see which things seemed most worth it to me.

--blar32

#22 Grimm

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Posted 27 February 2017 - 08:43 PM

FYI: don't forget to ask IM to change combat system on test to experiment with fighting perks on the same system as main

Test is currently same  combat and magic system as main, in anticipation of proper testing

#23 Adele

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Posted 27 February 2017 - 08:49 PM

Hi ,yes I would love to see perks implemented ,

#24 Learner

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Posted 27 February 2017 - 08:50 PM

View PostGrimm, on 27 February 2017 - 08:43 PM, said:

FYI: don't forget to ask IM to change combat system on test to experiment with fighting perks on the same system as main
Actually, testing with both would be good, but initial testing under the normal combat and magic system would be important.

#25 BlakKat

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Posted 27 February 2017 - 10:00 PM

To make lucky hitter/dodger competitive to mirror/life steal, their percentage needs to be about twice of that of mirror/life steal. The reason is that mirror and life steal have two effects.

#26 BlakKat

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Posted 27 February 2017 - 10:05 PM

View PostSimAnt, on 27 February 2017 - 07:01 PM, said:

View PostBlakKat, on 27 February 2017 - 09:43 AM, said:

Along those lines, a perk I would suggest is:

Beserker:  

10% Berserk (1 pp) +10% damage dealt, -5% def, -1 accu
20% Berserk (2 pps total),  +20% damage dealt, -10% def, -2 accu
50% Berserk (3 pps total), +50% damage dealt, -15% def, -3 accu

The intention would be that an def 85 char with that perk fully developed you could still fight clops well, but anything above that gets tricky. I was debating to give a multi-combat penalty instead of a def-penalty, but I thought then this perk could be a too good of a training perk.

Originally achilles had these two perks:
Damage reduction:

Animal Skin - 1pp - 20% damage reduction
Stone Skin - 1pp - 35% damage reduction
Diamond Skin - 2pp - 50% damage reduction

Damage augmentation:

Thug - 1pp - 20% damage increase
Brute - 1pp - 35% damage increase
Brutalizer - 2pp - 50% damage increase
which i felt were way overpowered, 50% is way too much.


I think more than -15% def penalty for 50% damage boost would be needed.

Could be, but I am just thinking how bad I would look with def 70 instead of def 83 with lets say two clops on me. A feros certainly would beat the shit out of me  with def 70, so I would probably not be willing to take the perk for that very reason. This could of course look very different with a high-toughness built. But I guess that is exactly why testing is required.

#27 SimAnt

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Posted 27 February 2017 - 10:06 PM

View PostBlakKat, on 27 February 2017 - 10:00 PM, said:

To make lucky hitter/dodger competitive to mirror/life steal, their percentage needs to be about twice of that of mirror/life steal. The reason is that mirror and life steal have two effects.
remember, this is chance to store a critical regardless, or dodge a critical

#28 BlakKat

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Posted 27 February 2017 - 10:09 PM

View PostLearner, on 27 February 2017 - 08:50 PM, said:

View PostGrimm, on 27 February 2017 - 08:43 PM, said:

FYI: don't forget to ask IM to change combat system on test to experiment with fighting perks on the same system as main
Actually, testing with both would be good, but initial testing under the normal combat and magic system would be important.

What needs to be done to get the new combat system to main? Tbh it would make sense to implement that first before introducing the new perks? If we will do anyways serious testing, then lets do it once right and not twice wrong.

As I understand it, the new combat system would also address an issue vino pointed out, i.e. that you can deal damage (and dodge) only when you have a comparable attack (defense) level.

#29 Learner

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Posted 28 February 2017 - 05:49 AM

The NewCombat (Sigmoid & much more tunable) testing and tuning was being done by Achilles. The last I knew it was still being tuned before RL stole him.

Any discussion related to the NewCombat system that was being tested should go into it's own thread.

#30 Kurama

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Posted 28 February 2017 - 12:36 PM

Changed Numbers a bit since i disliked Eb's
Ranger Perks:
Eagle’s Eye (cannot be used with Guerrilla Warfare)
+3 Increase In accuracy
+6 Increase In accuracy
+10 Increase In accuracy


Lucky Archer
5% Chance of not losing arrows shot.
10% Chance of not losing arrows shot.
15% Chance of not losing arrows shot.


Guerrilla Warfare : (cannot be used with Eagle’s Eye)
This perk will reduce the engage/disengage time of archer in combat.
15% Reduction in engage/disengage time. -1 Reduction in Accuracy
20% Reduction in engage/disengage time. -2 Reduction in Accuracy
38% Reduction in engage/disengage time. -3 Reduction in Accuracy


Pure Fighting:

Lucky hitter: (cannot combine with lucky dodge)
8% Lucky hit - 1pp - +8% chance to hit, -3% chance to dodge, regardless of combat stats
14% Lucky hit - 1pp - +14% chance to hit, -6% chance to dodge, regardless of combat stats
25% Lucky hit - 1pp - +25% chance to hit, -8% chance to dodge, regardless of combat stats

Lucky dodge: (cannot combine with lucky hit)
8% Lucky dodge - 1pp - +8% chance to dodge, -2% chance to hit, regardless of combat stats
14% Lucky dodge - 1pp - +14% chance to dodge, -6% chance to hit, regardless of combat stats
25% Lucky dodge - 1pp - +25% chance to dodge, -8% chance to hit, regardless of combat stats

BATMAN: (-2 accuracy for every 4 mobs)
-3 Multi pen - 1pp - Defense penalty when fighting multiple opponents decreased to -3
-2 Multi pen - 1pp - Defense penalty when fighting multiple opponents decreased to -2
-1 Multi pen - 1pp - NO PENALTY


Mirror: (Cannot be combined with Life Steal) Rounding away from zero, .5 would round to 1, .4 round to 0
6% Mirror - 1pp - +6% of all incoming damage mirrored
11% Mirror - 1pp - +11% of all incoming damage mirrored
22% Mirror - 1pp - +22% of all incoming damage mirrored

Life Steal: (Cannot be combined with Mirror) Rounding away from zero, .5 would round to 1, .4 round to 0
6% Lifesteal - 1pp - 6% of damage dealt absorbed as HP
12% Lifesteal - 1pp - 12% of damage dealt absorbed as HP
25% Lifesteal - 1pp - 25% of damage dealt absorbed as HP


Offensive Mage (Cannot be used with Defensive Mage Perk)
10% Offense Mage` - 1pp - +10% increase in offensive magic strength/duration
20% Offense Mage - 1pp - +20% increase in offensive magic strength/duration
35% Offense Mage - 1pp - +35% increase in offensive magic strength/duration



Defensive Mage (Cannot be used with Offensive Mage Perk)
10% Offense Mage` - 1pp - +10% increase in Defensive magic strength/duration
20% Offense Mage - 1pp - +20% increase in Defensive magic strength/duration
35% Offense Mage - 1pp - +35% increase in Defensive magic strength/duration


Efficient Mage
Efficient Mage 1 - 1pp - +3% chance to not use resources or mana.
Efficient Mage 2 - 1pp - +6% chance to not use resources or mana.
Efficient Mage 3 - 1pp - +12% chance to not use resources or mana.





Pure Mixing:

Artificer

Artificer 1 - 1 pp - 15% increased rare mixes.
Artificer 2 - 1 pp - 30% increased rare mixes.
Artificer 3 - 1 pp - 45% increased rare mixes.
(halved for batch mixing-if made as game feature)

Effective Mixer

Recycler 1 - 1 pp - 1% chance to not` lose ingredients with a successful mix.
Recycler 2 - 1 pp - 2% chance to not lose ingredients with a successful mix.
Recycler 3 - 1 pp - 5% chance to not lose ingredients with a successful mix.

Careful Mixer

Careful Mixer 1 - 1 pp - 7% chance to not lose ingredients on critical failure.
Careful Mixer 2 - 1 pp - 15% chance to not lose ingredients on critical failure.
Careful Mixer 3 - 1 pp - 30% chance to not lose ingredients on critical failure.

Bone Eater: (+10 Food)
Bone Eater 1 - 1 pp - 5% chance to drop food level back to zero
Bone Eater 2 - 1 pp - 3% chance to drop food level back to zero
Bone Eater 3 - 1 pp - Feel free to eat bones

Pure Harvesting:

Excavator (cannot combine with excavator cloak)

Excavator 1 - 1 pp - Increase number of harvestables gathered per round to 2.
Excavator 2 - 1 pp - Increase number of harvestables gathered per round to 3.
Excavator 3 - 1 pp - Increase number of harvestables gathered per round to 4.

Lucky Harvester (This is a reduction in MN damage and an increase in gold/XP bonus/stone finding events..number of total events does not change..just shifts the mean from good/bad 50/50 to 60/40, 70/30, 90/10).

Lucky Guy 1 - 1 pp - 10% shift towards good harvesting events.
Lucky Guy 2 - 1 pp - 25% shift towards good harvesting events.
Lucky Guy 3 - 1 pp - 40% shift towards good harvesting events.



General Benefits


Cooldown reduction

15% Cooldown - 1pp -
25% Cooldown - 1pp -
40% Cooldown - 1pp -

Healthy Guy

+30 Health - 1pp - Increase health by 30
+60 Health - 1pp - Increase health by 60
+120 Health - 1pp - Increase health by 120

Magic Guy

+40 Mana - 1pp - Increase mana by 40
+80 Mana - 1pp - Increase mana by 80
+160 Mana - 1pp - Increase mana by 160

Such Macho

100 Hoarder - 1pp - Increase emu by 100
200 Hoarder - 1pp - Increase emu by 200
350 Hoarder - 1pp - Increase emu by 350

Much Nomz wow

+25 Max Food - 1pp
+40 Max Food - 1pp
+55 Max Food - 1pp

#31 SimAnt

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Posted 28 February 2017 - 06:55 PM

View PostKurama, on 28 February 2017 - 12:36 PM, said:

Guerrilla Warfare : (cannot be used with Eagle’s Eye)
This perk will reduce the engage/disengage time of archer in combat.
15% Reduction in engage/disengage time. -1 Reduction in Accuracy
20% Reduction in engage/disengage time. -2 Reduction in Accuracy
38% Reduction in engage/disengage time. -3 Reduction in Accuracy


Don't understand engage/disengage time.

The rest of the percentages seem too high to me.

#32 Coiote

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Posted 28 February 2017 - 07:25 PM

I think these perks will be a great addition to the game. It will definitely refresh it for some of us, "old" players and definitely will attract new players. The game needs a perk system asap.

#33 Grimm

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Posted 28 February 2017 - 07:34 PM

Alot of these percentages do seem a little high, testing purposes I'd suggest lower and adjust higher if seems needed

#34 Kurama

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Posted 01 March 2017 - 12:24 AM

View PostSimAnt, on 28 February 2017 - 06:55 PM, said:

View PostKurama, on 28 February 2017 - 12:36 PM, said:

Guerrilla Warfare : (cannot be used with Eagle’s Eye)
This perk will reduce the engage/disengage time of archer in combat.
15% Reduction in engage/disengage time. -1 Reduction in Accuracy
20% Reduction in engage/disengage time. -2 Reduction in Accuracy
38% Reduction in engage/disengage time. -3 Reduction in Accuracy


Don't understand engage/disengage time.

The rest of the percentages seem too high to me.
That perk was Eb's idea i believe, but when you're shooting theres delay/animation that takes quite a lot of time (when you start and when youre trying to change position) interesting perk, but yea...
Numbers that I consider high are on healthy guy, magic guy, aand maybe the accuracy on ranging should be less... like 8 or so but guys... remember youll get only 3 perks completely... :)
Also  there are no perks for summoners :)
f.e.
Necromancer: All summoned MONSTERS gets +20%Bonus max Health
Necromancer: All summoned MONSTERS gets +35%Bonus max Health
Necromancer: All summoned MONSTERS gets +50%Bonus max Health

#35 Kurama

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Posted 01 March 2017 - 08:57 AM

Ok, scratch my idea, I'm just gonna play and try to have fun. I give up :))

o/

#36 Aine

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Posted 01 March 2017 - 11:03 AM

I would love to see perks in the game :-) cant wait !!

#37 EatsAllLife

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Posted 01 March 2017 - 07:57 PM

Perhaps make the perks more even around the playing field? I mean come on, everyone will benefit from bone eating, but for fighters the CD doesn't matter, mixers though? Hell yeah it does... But a mixer can't benefit from any fighter perk... I don't see why a mixer will have to spend 3 of 9 perk points for a max perk with a cool down still, perhaps make tier 3 no cool down on bones? (Please do not expect us to merge these with CD perk for less cooldown on another perks benefits... thats a Radu thing to say, and then 2/3 of our perk points are gone!) Then if we want artificer there are no other perks... Perhaps make some perks similar to EL... Maybe add in the negative perks? I don't know, to me this just doesn't seem 100% fair around the playing field currently... (especially with mages/fighters getting SUPERIOR BENEFITS, but mixers don't really...)
EDIT: Bones fixed.
~Eats

#38 ebattleon

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Posted 02 March 2017 - 02:07 AM

View PostEatsAllLife, on 01 March 2017 - 07:57 PM, said:

Perhaps make the perks more even around the playing field? I mean come on, everyone will benefit from bone eating, but for fighters the CD doesn't matter, mixers though? Hell yeah it does... But a mixer can't benefit from any fighter perk... I don't see why a mixer will have to spend 3 of 9 perk points for a max perk with a cool down still, perhaps make tier 3 no cool down on bones? (Please do not expect us to merge these with CD perk for less cooldown on another perks benefits... thats a Radu thing to say, and then 2/3 of our perk points are gone!) Then if we want artificer there are no other perks... Perhaps make some perks similar to EL... Maybe add in the negative perks? I don't know, to me this just doesn't seem 100% fair around the playing field currently... (especially with mages/fighters getting SUPERIOR BENEFITS, but mixers don't really...)
EDIT: Bones fixed.

~Eats

The intent here is increase specialization which should allow a player to enhance the class he wants to play as. The perk system should enhance this not weaken it, and should allow more specialization and differentiation within classes in the hope that this will improve teamwork. The tier based system allows any player to choose how they spread their Perk Points around and become a "master of all" albeit a weak "master of all".

If you think a class is being penalized then suggest a perk addition to the class, saying "but mixers don't really...." is not going to help anything.

As for adopting EL perks, while I am the the first person to say if you already got something use it it is the intent to make OL unique in its own right. If you want EL perks best bet is to play EL instead.

View PostKurama, on 01 March 2017 - 12:24 AM, said:

View PostSimAnt, on 28 February 2017 - 06:55 PM, said:

View PostKurama, on 28 February 2017 - 12:36 PM, said:

Guerrilla Warfare : (cannot be used with Eagle’s Eye)
This perk will reduce the engage/disengage time of archer in combat.
15% Reduction in engage/disengage time. -1 Reduction in Accuracy
20% Reduction in engage/disengage time. -2 Reduction in Accuracy
38% Reduction in engage/disengage time. -3 Reduction in Accuracy


Don't understand engage/disengage time.

The rest of the percentages seem too high to me.
That perk was Eb's idea i believe, but when you're shooting theres delay/animation that takes quite a lot of time (when you start and when you're trying to change position) interesting perk, but yea...
Numbers that I consider high are on healthy guy, magic guy, and maybe the accuracy on ranging should be less... like 8 or so but guys... remember you'll get only 3 perks completely... :)
Also  there are no perks for summoners :)
f.e.
Necromancer: All summoned MONSTERS gets +20%Bonus max Health
Necromancer: All summoned MONSTERS gets +35%Bonus max Health
Necromancer: All summoned MONSTERS gets +50%Bonus max Health

Kurama you are 100% correct about my intent for the Guerrilla Warfare Ranger perk. I created those divergent perks so a ranger could choose to be deadly accurate sniper or a rapid fire gun slinger depending on their style. And really 10 gc an arrow I'll always be poor :(. And good call in support of necromancers.

I also should explain my rationale for some of my suggested values:
1) topped out Artificer perk at 30% because this is the listed limit (from EL wiki since OL's "unofficial" official wiki seems dead) for the cape which you cannot use with the perk.
2) so macho (should have my bad) started at 200 and topped out at 500 emu because these are the values of the small and large packs respectively.

Edited by ebattleon, 02 March 2017 - 02:34 AM.


#39 BlakKat

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Posted 02 March 2017 - 09:01 AM

View Postebattleon, on 02 March 2017 - 02:07 AM, said:


The intent here is increase specialization which should allow a player to enhance the class he wants to play as. The perk system should enhance this not weaken it, and should allow more specialization and differentiation within classes in the hope that this will improve teamwork. The tier based system allows any player to choose how they spread their Perk Points around and become a "master of all" albeit a weak "master of all".


That is why I think that there should be disadvantages for each perk, too, that overall they remain neutral to slightly positive.

#40 ebattleon

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Posted 02 March 2017 - 06:41 PM

View PostBlakKat, on 02 March 2017 - 09:01 AM, said:


That is why I think that there should be disadvantages for each perk, too, that overall they remain neutral to slightly positive.

Please clarify but looking at the perks that you think need to be changed and inserting your ideas.

View PostGrimm, on 28 February 2017 - 07:34 PM, said:

Alot of these percentages do seem a little high, testing purposes I'd suggest lower and adjust higher if seems needed

What values need to be changed?




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