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separate nexus points from PP, fighting AND other skills


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#1 real_jo

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Posted 05 June 2017 - 10:40 AM

- separate nexus points from PP and fighting vs. other skills -

i've tried to read all the postings that are relevant for this one.
while reading older postings i got the impression indeed of a cold war fighters vs others like mentioned in:
http://www.other-lif...s-not-official/

its not exactly clear to me after reading many postings, why we cant just have a game which pleases most 'styles' of playing.
indeed i think we can and we should, because imho its the only way to attract a relevant number of players for this game.
in this thread i propose the total separation of the nexus points from the usual pickpoints.

i think of the following points that are important here:
- you dont want the 'perfect allrounder' (need to specialize)
- fighters might need one or two 'business' skills without hurting them at PPs
- cold war between mixers and fighters (see link above)
- importance of fighting in the game (invasions and the like)
- possibility of different builds

##########################
so proposal would be:
- have pickpoints split up in 'cross-attribute pp' (=xapp) and 'nexus pp' (=npp) (no interchange or whatsoever)

- npp are similar to xapp in that you get some at the start of your char (e.g. 4 npp)
and you get more with leveling OA, but only so many that you can fill a certain amount of nexi (@level 100):
e.g. we have 6 nexi with points 0-6 each, then you get 0.15 npp per OA level, giving you 16 npp @level 80 (4+80*0.15)
-> this should be adapted to our needs, do we want each player be able to have 2 full nexus or even 3 ?

- reorganize nexus a bit
nexus is strongly related to a skill so far:
Animal - summon
Artificial - manu
Magic - crafting
Inorganic - harvest
Vegetal - potioning

only Human nexus is different and i propose to
- fully drop human nexus - its good for nothing really and only prevents ppl from wearing items.

- better separate Artificial an Magic nexus, maybe renaming them to Manufacture and Crafting or anything clearer

- spread the good things of every skill more evenly on the nexus scale from 0-6
(still possible to reduce the range to 0-4 and adapt the rest to that)

- maybe think about the possibility of a nexus for ranging skill -> should be a different topic

###############
with this system
. we can have everyone be able to fight according to his level oa, a/d)
. 'mixers' can fight PK PVP or in invasions if they like
. 'fighters' can have one or two skills for fun and profit
. noone must compromise between fighting and other skills
. xapp maybe might get reduced a little bit to compensate for the loss of need in nexus
. we are very flexible for future changes regarding the skills and everything _besides_ combat
. we can finetune the combat and the skills world separately

i've read this one http://www.other-lif...3-nexus-revamp/
but i dont think we should get rid off nexus in favor of making everything level dependent. My proposal incorporates the things that Learner mentions in there.

i dont comment on the current xapp system here, because the current new cross-attribute system looks like a real improvement (compared with EL) to me and surely can and will evolve further over time.

what do you think ? :)

regards
Jo

---
some remarks:
i've played EL for some years in the past already.
my OL account Jolaya was created some years ago and now revisiting the project
there are plenty of things i've noticed and i try to bring them up one by one
i'm fully aware of the fact, that i've been not into the game for the last years
and probably dont know all your plans and decisions although i really searched the forum intensively,
just think of me as of one of the potential players from EL that you might target

#2 Bat17

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Posted 05 June 2017 - 11:59 AM

I am not a fighter so this change would hit me hard,
I have all my nexus at their required max for creative skills. Under this regime I would just be able to do 2 skills to top lvl, say harvest and aclh but not be able to do manu, craft or pots at the same time.
There seems to be no matching formula to stop more than 2 fighting attributes be maxed out by the time fighters reach OA 100.
This seems to me that it would achieve the opposite of your aim of "game which pleases most 'styles' of playing" everyone would build up pp that can only be spent on skills and pp that can only be spent on fighting, so less choice.

"noone must compromise between fighting and other skills" And "you dont want the 'perfect allrounder' (need to specialize)". these two statements contradict each other.

This will just encourage ppl to be even more all rounders and reduce the amount of traded even more in a marketplace that is already fairly stagnant.


My twopence worth :-)

Bat17

#3 real_jo

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Posted 05 June 2017 - 04:09 PM

yes i understand what you say, but lets get into detail, what the problem is:
"you dont want the 'perfect allrounder' (need to specialize)" is what i have read in previous posts, where most ppl here agreed to.
if you separate fighting from the other skills by following my proposal, you would end up with: "you dont want the perfect non-combat-allrounder".
I think thats something to think about.

If you allow 3 nexus filled with high level, you could maximize artificial, magic(=crafting) and vegetal for example, but then you would lack inorganic (=harvest). or you would have to choose. but both cases also have advantages: if you choose to produce everything, you would need to _buy_ harvestables, or if you want to harvest everything yourself, you cant produce _everything_.
although i can fully understand your passion for the noncombat playing style, you could still make two characters to produce everything with your own harvest, just not on one char.
i personally think thats a not too bad price for the advantages.
of course you could allow for more nexus-pickpoints in general or with other triggers like leveling the skills, but the advantages would always benefit the fighters as well in this system, it wont hurt them - that was one of the intentions.

two more things here:
1st: being the perfect non-combat-allrounder like you are mentioning here is a thing that can be played in EL as well already.
2nd: some of the cross-attribs like Carry already make a difference in combat builds vs mixer builds. one could play around with placing certain possibilities on the attribs end or the nexus end to produce what is desired for OL.

still i think your comment
" "noone must compromise between fighting and other skills" And "you dont want the 'perfect allrounder' (need to specialize)". these two statements contradict each other."
is a valuable input for the discussion!

regards
Jo

PS: alch has no nexus required, so that one would not be restricted at all in the current scope

#4 WaterBottle

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Posted 05 June 2017 - 10:35 PM

I caught this topic pretty late in the night for me so I'll come back with more thought-based posts once I mull over the ideas and theory behind it. Just wanted to post my initial opinion(s).

The consequence of this system would hit the high level mixers pretty hard now that (1) they can no longer mix everything and (2) have to make a new char, get some OA levels on it, then grind the skill they didn't select initially if they wanted to mix everything again. Unless you got plats then you can reset every month.

Changing the system of playing OL is risky. It worked with going to picking cross attributes and pp/oa because that lessened the restrictions so now you can build your character the way you want with better precision. It feels odd to punish the long standing mixers with, "Well you either gotta grind your way back to the level of your now unused skill on a new char, or buy plats (either in game or with real $$) and wait at least 30 days to unlock mixing in that skill again".

I understand this had been discussed in the past (but didn't go anywhere implementation-wise), but with how perks took off this will need to do the same with today's community. If the vast majority believe this is what we want to go with (as a concept) then those in the minority will have to deal or leave. If no one responds, or there's a mixed reaction, this will fall to the wayside as it did in the past.

#5 EatsAllLife

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Posted 06 June 2017 - 01:53 AM

Currently, it takes 25 PP to max out your nexus. I agree on having nexus points in a way, but not how you proposed it with a max of 2 nexus's maxing... It just isn't fair for those specializing in mixing, but yet a fighter can max theirs out and another? Its inadequate. The way I see it, is similar to the Perk Points system mentioned in other topics, but maybe a nexus point every 2-3 oa's, along with the PP. This way by oa ~80-90, you can do all skills. This to me, seems you're targeting all-round players, which currently is what I am. So. This isn't worth it. I put pick points into all nexus to MAX, that takes out of my fighting and magic power. I put plenty into others. Why should we suffer when other builds can thrive? Make it even, or don't do anything at all in my opinion!
Just my few thoughts at the beginning. Thanks!
~Eats



#6 butler

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Posted 06 June 2017 - 04:31 AM

people like bat17 have specialised into being an all rounder mixer and sacrificed his fighting ability. A lot of people take somewhat of a middling route, which seems to be what you want to do? And theres a number with pure fighting builds.

View Postreal_jo, on 05 June 2017 - 10:40 AM, said:

. we can have everyone be able to fight according to his level oa, a/d)
I spent most of my pp to try and make sure I could survive mobs higher than my a/d and have sacrificed my ability to hit them and generally my ability to mix a large number of items. I specialised, so I beat the curve in one area (def), and so my att suffers and is lower than the curve.

View Postreal_jo, on 05 June 2017 - 10:40 AM, said:

. 'mixers' can fight PK PVP or in invasions if they like
They do though. There are mixers who are in the top 10  in pretty much every skill who fight in invasions.

View Postreal_jo, on 05 June 2017 - 10:40 AM, said:

. 'fighters' can have one or two skills for fun and profit
Think most pure fighters either think mixing is dull (it kind of is), and knowing some of the high level fighters, quite a lot of them have fairly spectacular wealth. There is a reason why they didn't put any or much into mixing to begin with. They're just not interested.

View Postreal_jo, on 05 June 2017 - 10:40 AM, said:

. noone must compromise between fighting and other skills
I thought you were talking about increasing specialisation.

View Postreal_jo, on 05 June 2017 - 10:40 AM, said:

. we can finetune the combat and the skills world separately
We kind of need to keep a look at the whole whichever way we do it so that we can make sure every skills works well, encourages characters with different builds, skills. etc. to trade with one another for different resources to help stop the economy from being quite so stagnant.

I think the perk points are a good idea, because they can be split between mixing and fighting specialisation, and sub builds of both of those and a mixture of the two. It gives you a lot more freedom to either go to one extreme, to the other or find a place in the middle. I don't really want to be saddled with putting more xattri pp into mixing than i have atm, sacrificing my combat build, which i've specialised to be to my advantage in one way and against it in another.

Also in terms of the nexus things, if I'm doing crafting, it pretty much nullifies me being able to touch anything else, since I need nexus's in two fields, would be a bit dodgy with also getting max human, or getting a reasonable inorg. Not all nexus requirements are equal.

#7 Kaddy

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Posted 06 June 2017 - 01:21 PM

I think 0,33 nexus point per overall level is just good imo.

#8 real_jo

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Posted 07 June 2017 - 04:15 AM

if you set 0.33 nexus points per OA, then everyone can max out nexus, right ?
would be fine for me, just that then nobody has to chose between non-combat-skills, cause you can max them all.

i think it would be interesting to force people to decide, even if that means that you cannot play the perfect non-combat allrounder.
Because i can already play the perfect non-combat-allrounder in EL, why should i repeat it here ?

#9 Kaddy

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Posted 07 June 2017 - 04:56 AM

I think forcing people to choose something is bad in any case.

OL is known for its invasions, 25pp is seriosly a harsh impact on invasioning capabilities to anyone who pick to be mixer.

#10 Aine

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Posted 07 June 2017 - 07:10 AM

I think that this is an interesting idea.  I like our pp system as it is,  but I can also see what Jo is saying.  I also think that we as a community need to be open to new ideas to improve/alter the game.  Maybe we dont use her exact calculations or exact theory, but use this thread to get some more ideas out there on how we can change this game from its original form.  because as she said and I feel is a very good point   "Because i can already play the perfect non-combat-allrounder in EL, why should i repeat it here ?" Thanks :-)

#11 WaterBottle

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Posted 07 June 2017 - 09:19 AM

After a few days to ponder, I understand your reasoning and interest to have specializations but it does clash with my play style so fundamentally I have to disagree with that aspect. Doesn't mean I won't keep an open mind; I 'm just stating my stance.

This gets close to another can of worms of why each of us left or lessened our play time on EL for OL. I myself left EL 5-6 years ago, then found OL 2 years ago when no other games kept me around longer than 1 month. I enjoy the enhanced customization of my build, the not pay-to-win, the more casual grind, and going my own pace without severe restrictions on what I can level/skill. My personal play style is generally more non-combat unless someone needs help with healing or DB retrieval during invasions.

As a whole, I like being able to "unlock" everything as a certain point in games. The pp/nexus pp separation does intrigue me more, but only because it helps in reducing the general specialization we have of mixer vs fighter.

Trying to set my bias aside here and thinking more out loud, I agree with butler that crafting requires two nexus categories so it wouldn't be equal to specialize in that aspect. Also I bet many people wouldn't choose animal nexus to level with how summoning currently is. It'd be hard to not choose some inorganic unless you can wait for someone else to harvest non-flower mats for you.

I don't speak for everyone (nor do I want to ever). Just wanting to express my opinions as a member of the community.

#12 butler

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Posted 07 June 2017 - 04:11 PM

View PostWaterBottle, on 07 June 2017 - 09:19 AM, said:

<snip>
I enjoy the enhanced customization of my build, the not pay-to-win, the more casual grind, and going my own pace without severe restrictions on what I can level/skill. My personal play style is generally more non-combat unless someone needs help with healing or DB retrieval during invasions.

As a whole, I like being able to "unlock" everything as a certain point in games. The pp/nexus pp separation does intrigue me more, but only because it helps in reducing the general specialization we have of mixer vs fighter.

<snip>
The first point I think is what we should try to keep going with any more changes in terms of tweaking or updating our system, keep specialisation open. (I've also reread the topic and understand and agree a little bit more with it)

My new question is do we need nexus, or can we replace that with something completely different to better deal with handling that side of the game, or do we need to keep the nexus we have at the moment or do we add/replace them much like we did with xattris?

Could we maybe make them something of their own individual level that goes up with OA+relevant skills? We could definitely deal with rebalancing nexus so they are equally useful...

View PostAine, on 07 June 2017 - 07:10 AM, said:

<snip>
  I also think that we as a community need to be open to new ideas to improve/alter the game.  Maybe we dont use her exact calculations or exact theory, but use this thread to get some more ideas out there on how we can change this game from its original form.
<snip>
re-emphasise, and also to say I'm not against these things totally. Sometimes I don't like them and sometimes I see issues and it's always worth seeing the answers or thoughts people have to critique. Can help force an idea to be clearer and better. I'm not a savage trying to stop new things! I promise.

#13 Bat17

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Posted 08 June 2017 - 11:32 AM

View Postreal_jo, on 07 June 2017 - 04:15 AM, said:

Because i can already play the perfect non-combat-allrounder in EL, why should i repeat it here ?

No reason to at all, you can choose what style of play you like. More to the point why stop other ppl having that style of play if they wish?

#14 real_jo

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Posted 09 June 2017 - 07:05 AM

View PostBat17, on 08 June 2017 - 11:32 AM, said:

View Postreal_jo, on 07 June 2017 - 04:15 AM, said:

Because i can already play the perfect non-combat-allrounder in EL, why should i repeat it here ?

No reason to at all, you can choose what style of play you like. More to the point why stop other ppl having that style of play if they wish?

View PostWaterBottle, on 07 June 2017 - 09:19 AM, said:

As a whole, I like being able to "unlock" everything as a certain point in games. The pp/nexus pp separation does intrigue me more, but only because it helps in reducing the general specialization we have of mixer vs fighter.

View PostKaddy, on 07 June 2017 - 04:56 AM, said:

I think forcing people to choose something is bad in any case.

OL is known for its invasions, 25pp is seriosly a harsh impact on invasioning capabilities to anyone who pick to be mixer.

View Postbutler, on 06 June 2017 - 04:31 AM, said:

I think the perk points are a good idea, because they can be split between mixing and fighting specialisation, and sub builds of both of those and a mixture of the two. It gives you a lot more freedom to either go to one extreme, to the other or find a place in the middle. I don't really want to be saddled with putting more xattri pp into mixing than i have atm, sacrificing my combat build, which i've specialised to be to my advantage in one way and against it in another.

Also in terms of the nexus things, if I'm doing crafting, it pretty much nullifies me being able to touch anything else, since I need nexus's in two fields, would be a bit dodgy with also getting max human, or getting a reasonable inorg. Not all nexus requirements are equal.

ok, thanks for all your answers, then it looks like most of you have no problem with having the 'perfect non-combat allrounder' around here. looks like i got the wrong impression on this while reading old threads.

since the proposal doesnt force you to make nexus-points rare, we could indeed just do 1 nexus point every 2 or 3 oa level, like kaddy said maybe .33 per.

this would still have the benefits of not being forced to make sacrifices on combat build only to be able to produce things, which is a benefit imho.

i'd like to recommend the other details here again:
- get rid off human nexus completely (in fact one could just set all armor and weapons to human 0 as a quick start)
- better separate artificial and magic nexus, so that crafting only uses one, not both


so that would be 2 major decisions here:
1) would you like to separate nexus points from regular pickpoints
2) would you like to scale nexus point gain so that you can max all existing skills with max level

for the details in nexus point meaning, there should be a detailed plan with all the tables of items and such, not sure if its worth doing this by now.

#15 WaterBottle

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Posted 09 June 2017 - 12:48 PM

Before I respond to the topic, just clarifying that by mentioning "most of us" have no problem, it's more towards the people that have been vocal in the topic thus far. :P

For all we know, everyone could agree with your specialization concept but aren't vocal about it. Those that disagree tend to be more vocal than those that agree, but we need (and I would like) to hear both sides if there are others that agree. Or maybe some are still on the fence about it; I may have been on the disagree side so far, but I wouldn't defend it blindly until I die because I see pros and cons to both sides.

Anyway, back to the topic at hand.

Answer to decision(1): You've heard my opinion on the separating nexus/pp already; find it intriguing and not opposed against it thus far.

Answer to decision (2): Nexus levels are pretty intertwined with the level of the associated skill as it exists today. No one is going to take 4 Vegetal and try to go make SRs/BRs when their potion skill is 2, as an example. But if you have potion up to 45, you'd probably want to have more nexus so you can make the higher end potions. So getting nexus incrementally (whether OA levels or associated skill levels) is the pretty natural based on the current skill/nexus system.

All of this assuming people are OK with the current intertwine of nexus and level of skill.

#16 EatsAllLife

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Posted 09 June 2017 - 05:37 PM

View Postreal_jo, on 07 June 2017 - 04:15 AM, said:

if you set 0.33 nexus points per OA, then everyone can max out nexus, right ?
would be fine for me, just that then nobody has to chose between non-combat-skills, cause you can max them all.

i think it would be interesting to force people to decide, even if that means that you cannot play the perfect non-combat allrounder.
Because i can already play the perfect non-combat-allrounder in EL, why should i repeat it here ?

Well, to begin. You obviously have not explored the PP system very much... Considering I can think of at least 3 ways off the top of my head where an allround build can differentiate, really. No 2 all round builds are the same. Mine for example, is no wheres near similar to bat's, or anyone else. To each their own on their preferred all-round playstyle. Not EL where I can be the perfect all-rounder, along with every other character because all the nexus and PP can be maxed EASILY. Here you cannot buy your pick points, you cannot buy your nexus, etc. It's all earned. Then placed, sure, you can rearrange them, but really. Each build is different, just like 2 fighters are never really the exact same here. Everything is different, even by the slightest little pick point, it changes it a lot. So don't think there are only fighter, mixer, all-rounder, because I have seen and came up with multiple diversions of each build. None of which are the same.

View PostKaddy, on 07 June 2017 - 04:56 AM, said:

I think forcing people to choose something is bad in any case.

OL is known for its invasions, 25pp is seriosly a harsh impact on invasioning capabilities to anyone who pick to be mixer. It really is. Especially if the other PP don't just go into fighting PP's.

View PostAine, on 07 June 2017 - 07:10 AM, said:

I think that this is an interesting idea.  I like our pp system as it is,  but I can also see what Jo is saying.  I also think that we as a community need to be open to new ideas to improve/alter the game.  Maybe we dont use her exact calculations or exact theory, but use this thread to get some more ideas out there on how we can change this game from its original form.  because as she said and I feel is a very good point   "Because i can already play the perfect non-combat-allrounder in EL, why should i repeat it here ?" Thanks :-)
I think we are actually open to things, but we dislike a lot, and shut it down, there is a difference to giving our reasoning to no, than just saying "Shut up and stop right there" It's the fact that we just dislike this idea, and don't wish to see it. I can also see what Jo is saying, but I do not agree. Other than the nexus points, thats one good thing I've seen.

View PostBat17, on 08 June 2017 - 11:32 AM, said:

View Postreal_jo, on 07 June 2017 - 04:15 AM, said:

Because i can already play the perfect non-combat-allrounder in EL, why should i repeat it here ?

No reason to at all, you can choose what style of play you like. More to the point why stop other ppl having that style of play if they wish?
^^ Exactly Bat! Couldn't have said it better myself.

#17 butler

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Posted 10 June 2017 - 03:34 AM

Think an all rounder build that does sacrifice some combat proficiency is fine, as that's a specialisation that you have chosen to do at a disadvantage to you. However, if you can just do every skill excessively well, then there is no point of having the system as a whole. We should have the game going towards being more strategic.

Also Eats, we aren't all writing off the idea as bad... a number of us just saw possible issues and decided to give critique and thoughts. Things aren't absolute.

#18 EatsAllLife

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Posted 10 June 2017 - 10:44 AM

View Postbutler, on 10 June 2017 - 03:34 AM, said:

Think an all rounder build that does sacrifice some combat proficiency is fine, as that's a specialisation that you have chosen to do at a disadvantage to you. However, if you can just do every skill excessively well, then there is no point of having the system as a whole. We should have the game going towards being more strategic.

Also Eats, we aren't all writing off the idea as bad... a number of us just saw possible issues and decided to give critique and thoughts. Things aren't absolute.

Then it makes the game a class system, not a 'classless system'. You'd be removing one of the most favorable things in OL/EL. Personally, I think this would make more people leave. You cannot do each skill excessively well as an allrounder, you can do them, but not to the full potential. Mixers typically take carry and ratio for max load/exp and 25 PP, along with some matter to withstand harvest dmg. . Fighters take 4 attribs, over time adding more, and 4 nexus, along with some matter..Allrounders take a variation of everything, ratio for magic/exp, cary for more per load, fighting attributes, along with the 25 nexus... We cannot do a single skill as well as a defined person that chooses fighting, mixing, or magic... Don't limit anyone more!
~Eats

#19 CoduX

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Posted 10 June 2017 - 11:50 AM

My personal thoughts

- Removal Nexus completely and have skill level requirements to do things
e.g Defense level 60 for Titanium Chest - Level 62 for Iron Greaves - Level 65 For Iron Cuisses - 70 for Iron Armour etc (wearing)
e.g Attack 20 for Iron Broad Sword - Attack 40 for S2E - etc etc

Same for harvesting requiring a harvest level to harvest certain resources.

I feel this is revolutionary and will attract a larger audience to the game and bring more players over from EL to play here due to the uniqueness of it (not total uniqueness but is something that is better in the long run)

Only problem I foresee with this is, is that it may wreck the economy with players being able to do their own thing....at least there will be no need to be fearful of the multi rule I guess.

#20 butler

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Posted 10 June 2017 - 04:48 PM

View PostEatsAllLife, on 10 June 2017 - 10:44 AM, said:

View Postbutler, on 10 June 2017 - 03:34 AM, said:

Think an all rounder build that does sacrifice some combat proficiency is fine, as that's a specialisation that you have chosen to do at a disadvantage to you. However, if you can just do every skill excessively well, then there is no point of having the system as a whole. We should have the game going towards being more strategic.

Also Eats, we aren't all writing off the idea as bad... a number of us just saw possible issues and decided to give critique and thoughts. Things aren't absolute.

Then it makes the game a class system, not a 'classless system'. You'd be removing one of the most favorable things in OL/EL. Personally, I think this would make more people leave. You cannot do each skill excessively well as an allrounder, you can do them, but not to the full potential. Mixers typically take carry and ratio for max load/exp and 25 PP, along with some matter to withstand harvest dmg. . Fighters take 4 attribs, over time adding more, and 4 nexus, along with some matter..Allrounders take a variation of everything, ratio for magic/exp, cary for more per load, fighting attributes, along with the 25 nexus... We cannot do a single skill as well as a defined person that chooses fighting, mixing, or magic... Don't limit anyone more!
~Eats

Classless is being able to modify and not be restrained to a set class, however you do create economic issues when you make perfect one man machines. There needs to be a way for those specialising in a singular or limited number of skills to be able to out do an all rounder. An all rounders advantage should be their ability to make good versions of everything, a specialist should be able to make excellent versions of less things. I believe a (very) old suggestion by hades of attaching sub levels to individual items (such as when makign a certain item or fighting with a certain item) that you should become more proficient at it. I would also say that you should also have a small roll when making the items, and have that roll be a bit more favourable to specialists.

I am also not suggesting removing it completely. I am suggesting we overhaul the system so it actually works and is considered. A lot of what we have in OL is just an amalgamation of mostly unconnected content, partially from inheritance of EL, partially from not actually aiming to look at a larger macro scale. I miss rabbitman, he was fairly good at a number of these things, especially the numbers, where I fail.

Do think it's worth looking at the system and saying we can do better, and we can expand on the xattris. We can expand the mechanics so people can choose how much they want to specialise with each individual piece, or not if they so choose, but we need to balance them in terms of what they can do, and have the trade off a bit more considered.

also with the original thing, human nexus could be replaced simply by using the a/d/combat level as a guide for when you can wear certain items, or even oa.

Nexus as a whole probably needs some sort of replacement, maybe not so forceful, due to the ease of getting a number of skills up to fairly powerful levels atm (only reason I'm not steaming ahead in potioning or summoning is because i can't afford the nexus), so we definitely need something to help us actually think about specialising rather than at higher levels just going fuck it, I have the cash, lets get it all up (which isn't really that well mitigated atm, at would be worse without, and not great economically increasing hording and reducing interaction.) I argued it before, we need the mixing system fixed and thought through, we need to have it encourage interaction, and we need it to be more of choice in line with how people choose between various fighting builds. The current mixing system isn't quite fit for purpose, but in a lot of ways the bare minimum that could be done for the inclusion of one.




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