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All maps, except PK maps, no drop


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#21 Eagle

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Posted 07 June 2017 - 12:31 PM

Some of the responses are the exact reason you have only 25 players playing on the weekends and will never climb higher than that. This was a welcome diversion from EL, but I think my time here has ended.


Good luck Learner.

#22 butler

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Posted 07 June 2017 - 04:01 PM

You need risk reward in games. If we remove drops, then we have to put another penalty in.

As to the other game, it was a MUD, and as I explained in all those threads jo, it's just an example of how we could change the drop system, that you don't need to stick with what you know already or rip it out completely.

As to Aine, I think we should make some low level maps no drop (make sense, lets them learn the game, and gives them a safe space to mess up on top of the level they need to reach before they start dropping), and the rare higher level maps (but the issue with that is if they have good spawns, then why would anyone use the other maps?).

From the people who are for making everything no drop, what's your proposed death penalty? It's obvious that losing things has been a persistent problem across EL/OL, but what penalties are we going to put in to deter dying. We need to balance. I don't want the game to get too hard or piss easy.

I'm open to other death systems, but i know that some people get stupidly conservative with what they do with an experience loss system.

Ideas, go, please.

#23 ebattleon

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Posted 07 June 2017 - 07:03 PM

How about a system where you temporarily lose a random combat level that stack up to ten levels the penalty will last for 24 hrs after last death.

#24 Zian

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Posted 07 June 2017 - 07:29 PM

As a fighter, I've always accepted the 'drop' risk while playing both EL/OL over the last 10+ years. I do like L's recent modification reducing the amount of items dropped! This eases the pain a little :) It should be noted; I'll jump into a horde knowing the risks, if i die so be it.

Regarding new players - real newbies to the game begin to drop items upon death at a certain level (can't recall what Level) - I have a ton of extra armour/weapons that I can donate and I think most seasoned players look for a new player to help them out.

I don't see a need to make further changes.

Regards
Z

#25 butler

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Posted 08 June 2017 - 07:15 AM

View PostZian, on 07 June 2017 - 07:29 PM, said:

As a fighter, I've always accepted the 'drop' risk while playing both EL/OL over the last 10+ years. I do like L's recent modification reducing the amount of items dropped! This eases the pain a little :) It should be noted; I'll jump into a horde knowing the risks, if i die so be it.

Regarding new players - real newbies to the game begin to drop items upon death at a certain level (can't recall what Level) - I have a ton of extra armour/weapons that I can donate and I think most seasoned players look for a new player to help them out.

I don't see a need to make further changes.

Regards
Z

It's level 20 or 21 I believe

Donations I don't think would solve a lot of peoples concerns. I still believe kaddy's suggestions could help go towards making death a bit fairer, and making high level invasions not rage inducing when you lose things (because you had near no fighting chance)

#26 EatsAllLife

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Posted 08 June 2017 - 11:51 AM

View PostMixi, on 07 June 2017 - 10:31 AM, said:

View PostWarlock, on 06 June 2017 - 10:42 AM, said:

Wow, 100% disagree

Actually, i think this is almost the most cancerous topic ive ever seen

is not hard to get 45 mag, and use magic pot for invis spell

Most players have friends/know someone with inv is pots/spell that can retrieve DB's, making all maps except for PK no drop is utter bullshit, fucking train ur mag lvl up and cast ur own invis spell, or buy invis pots. dont expect the whole game to be handed to you on a plate, with extra veggies and gravy.

Maybe try WORK to better your levels??????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Such a nice response. I havent been able to level up my magic for ages since all invasions I fight in have grizzlies, eating my mana.
(*goes back to playing PoE*)

Leveling it isn't that hard, you just need to play outside of invasions, for ~1 hour a day, and be able to fight and use things... You don't NEED this. You need to socialize, and as others were stating, some people only harvest/chat... Then they have NO need for the drop issue at all, as long as they don't go AFK for hours and get invaded on. Simply do not harvest on the weekend while AFK, if it is the weekend always have a dis/tele ring handy and get out as soon as you see them... There are 4/7 days a week where harvesters can do their harvesting. Fighters do their fighting/invasions... If you cannot afford to lose the items you're wearing... Think. Should you REALLY be wearing them to begin with. You can lose items more ways than just death... I have yet to see any item that doesn't break and/or degrade. This isn't EL. Rosto's were a guilty beginning to a virtual gofundme of here is a $5.00 stone that will save your millions of items. People THEN were irritated by losing multiple rosto's. Nothing will suffice until you can die with no loss- which, in reality. You're not 5, you can deal with losing items, and a death penalty. It's different if you get bagjumped, but in reality. That doesn't happen as often as EL.

~Eats

#27 Mixi

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Posted 08 June 2017 - 05:27 PM

Since I have a more than full time job, am a single parent and actually have other priorities than playing a game, 1 hour per day is WAY MORE than I can spend, I am glad if I can manage a few hours on the weekend, while running laundry or taking a break from work.  I find it belittling and insulting that you fell you need to instruct me on how I should play.
Forget it, the thing I don't need is someone telling how to run my life!

#28 Kaddy

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Posted 09 June 2017 - 02:00 AM

You are just over reacting as always.

#29 real_jo

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Posted 09 June 2017 - 04:03 AM

i slowly begin to understand why this game is in such a  bad shape currently...

if some of you really are fond of dropping items on death outside pk, then it would maybe really be better to introduce a switch that everyone can activate to drop. but if only some players primarily think that OTHERS should drop, then you will never succeed in having more players than the current active 10, sry to say that. i am bemused by the fact that most people just say their opinion and only few give a reason.
A death penalty is not necessarily a drop bag - why do you mix that up constantly ?

and sry EatsAllLife, what you say is simply not logical. if you say 'mixers' should play 4/7 and stay away from invasions, then what do YOU have to lose, if they play 7/7 instead because they dont need to be afraid of dropping their items even if they enter a cave with harvestables by bad luck which was invaded ?
in fact its NOT about rushing into hoard because you want to be brave, its mostly just entering the wrong map or place and being multied before you can get out again. the way i have experienced the game the last weeks, its nearly pointless to play on weekends for me. yes, i can fight 'some' of the maps, but either i just go afk while my char kills bunnies, OR i cant enter the map because if only one bear joins all the orcs around me i am plain dead and lose my sword. and no, i currently cant always retrieve my DB, in contrast to you obviously, and yes i know a bit of the game, played many instances in EL successfully. And what i have seen as drops from invasion monsters, its pointless to kill them anyway, i have enough furs now, ty.

there are some very easy compromises if you really put your money where your mouth is:
1) introduce cheap rostos makeable or NPC (could e.g. be a rosto potion!)
-> then all of you tough fighters just dont use this items and feel brave like before and all the other players just use those items on weekends to be able to continue to play. you could make the pk maps such that this item isnt working there.

OR

2) just only invade the new DL maps for now, dont invade C1 at all. most non-combat players dont need the DL maps for now, they could continue to play on weekends just fine.

OR
3) make all C1 maps no-drop for now (except for TD and KF maybe) !

best solution still would be make a good death penalty without dropping at all. as i said, EL is only one click away.

The way i see it, you should really think of the goals that you have with this game. If its only about defending the playing style of a few existing people here, then just tell it, but dont tell others what they should do or not, because they will just leave then.

#30 Eagle

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Posted 09 June 2017 - 08:48 AM

I looked back to see where this has gone. You guys make me laugh. Train more :P in less than 4 weeks, I went from low 30's to low 60's. That's all I did here was train. My goal was to get to the high 80's by end of summer.  And IF you had read my posts, it's not about losing items. NOTHING I have cost me anything, it was all drop armor and weapons. I only need to spend money on HE, SR and BR. I get plenty of that from ogre/troll farming. Let me say it clearly and bold enough for you understand:

Making the game NEWBIE friendly to help with retention of players!

Rather than think about how to keep the players we get, we have people with defending a system that favors the pro player who is already at the top.

Sadly I know I just wasted my time because you'll blame me for not "fill in the blank" and tell me how I am wrong and need to train more. :rolleyes:

I hope the 20 of you have a great invasion weekend. ^_^

#31 Kaddy

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Posted 09 June 2017 - 11:19 AM

View PostEagle, on 09 June 2017 - 08:48 AM, said:

I looked back to see where this has gone. You guys make me laugh. Train more :P in less than 4 weeks, I went from low 30's to low 60's. That's all I did here was train. My goal was to get to the high 80's by end of summer.  And IF you had read my posts, it's not about losing items. NOTHING I have cost me anything, it was all drop armor and weapons. I only need to spend money on HE, SR and BR. I get plenty of that from ogre/troll farming. Let me say it clearly and bold enough for you understand:

Making the game NEWBIE friendly to help with retention of players!

Rather than think about how to keep the players we get, we have people with defending a system that favors the pro player who is already at the top.

Sadly I know I just wasted my time because you'll blame me for not "fill in the blank" and tell me how I am wrong and need to train more. :rolleyes:

I hope the 20 of you have a great invasion weekend. ^_^

Noone is actually telling you that you are wrong.

Some of us really try to bring more people in and really help to make them get used to OL faster.

The current system is wrong. Most of the stuff are just for high end, but the screwed thing is low/mid level stuff are much rewarding. Which means when invasion begins (as it is the biggest stuff in OL) high end people end up clearing mid/low stuff for rewards and then go waste shitloads in high end because high end is barely rewarding.

There is no balance, and also no stragetic thinking required in most cases. This is what OL lacks.

#32 EatsAllLife

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Posted 09 June 2017 - 04:03 PM

View Postreal_jo, on 09 June 2017 - 04:03 AM, said:

i slowly begin to understand why this game is in such a  bad shape currently...

if some of you really are fond of dropping items on death outside pk, then it would maybe really be better to introduce a switch that everyone can activate to drop. but if only some players primarily think that OTHERS should drop, then you will never succeed in having more players than the current active 10, sry to say that. i am bemused by the fact that most people just say their opinion and only few give a reason.
A death penalty is not necessarily a drop bag - why do you mix that up constantly ?

and sry EatsAllLife, what you say is simply not logical. if you say 'mixers' should play 4/7 and stay away from invasions, then what do YOU have to lose, if they play 7/7 instead because they dont need to be afraid of dropping their items even if they enter a cave with harvestables by bad luck which was invaded ?
in fact its NOT about rushing into hoard because you want to be brave, its mostly just entering the wrong map or place and being multied before you can get out again. the way i have experienced the game the last weeks, its nearly pointless to play on weekends for me. yes, i can fight 'some' of the maps, but either i just go afk while my char kills bunnies, OR i cant enter the map because if only one bear joins all the orcs around me i am plain dead and lose my sword. and no, i currently cant always retrieve my DB, in contrast to you obviously, and yes i know a bit of the game, played many instances in EL successfully. And what i have seen as drops from invasion monsters, its pointless to kill them anyway, i have enough furs now, ty.

there are some very easy compromises if you really put your money where your mouth is:
1) introduce cheap rostos makeable or NPC (could e.g. be a rosto potion!)
-> then all of you tough fighters just dont use this items and feel brave like before and all the other players just use those items on weekends to be able to continue to play. you could make the pk maps such that this item isnt working there.

OR

2) just only invade the new DL maps for now, dont invade C1 at all. most non-combat players dont need the DL maps for now, they could continue to play on weekends just fine.

OR
3) make all C1 maps no-drop for now (except for TD and KF maybe) !

best solution still would be make a good death penalty without dropping at all. as i said, EL is only one click away.

The way i see it, you should really think of the goals that you have with this game. If its only about defending the playing style of a few existing people here, then just tell it, but dont tell others what they should do or not, because they will just leave then.

You jumped to a conclusion, I didn't say they could only play 4/7 days, but there are those days where they can do it risk free. When entering a new map, that isn't connected to an inside map (example as TGMS). They have a 5 second delay before being attacked, you can jump in, notice monsters, and get out. Your issues are the fact you're used to not having a worry on losing anything due to your precious magic rock. You want it easy. But if something is easy, it is boring. If all maps are no drop, why even have a strategy, or different armor. Might as well always wear my iron set, it won't drop, only break... Things are easy, next thing you know you'll say your good armor breaks too easily and whine to bring back the NMT cloak...
And by the way, the death penalty IS the death bag, its is your punishment. You died, and dropped some items, hurry and get back, or lose your items!
~Eats

#33 butler

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Posted 09 June 2017 - 04:32 PM

View PostKaddy, on 09 June 2017 - 11:19 AM, said:

View PostEagle, on 09 June 2017 - 08:48 AM, said:

<snip>
<snip>
The current system is wrong. Most of the stuff are just for high end, but the screwed thing is low/mid level stuff are much rewarding. Which means when invasion begins (as it is the biggest stuff in OL) high end people end up clearing mid/low stuff for rewards and then go waste shitloads in high end because high end is barely rewarding.

There is no balance, and also no stragetic thinking required in most cases. This is what OL lacks.

Completely agree

Also had a good convo with jolaya, where she brought up a rabbitman post delving into death and how the db doesn't actually effect the economy really. So we could make maps all non drop, however a death penalty is still a good idea. What we came up with is a reduction in the exp you gain for x number of time after death (as taking you back in exp is shit), but that would need to be balanced to not screw you for constant death and for long periods of not dying and being fair.

View PostEatsAllLife, on 09 June 2017 - 04:03 PM, said:

<snip>

You jumped to a conclusion,
Eats... considering you are guilty often, and are slightly right now... maybe try not to point out that flaw if you're not willing to take it for yourself

View PostEatsAllLife, on 09 June 2017 - 04:03 PM, said:

<snip>
You want it easy. But if something is easy, it is boring. <snip>
~Eats
She isn't for making it easier, which is very obvious when i had a conversation with her, and she is fully open to another death state, but again she doesn't know which and she falls in the same category of not seeing the economic side of it, which the more i think about, the more i realise has a fair point to it.

#34 ebattleon

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Posted 15 June 2017 - 10:56 AM

Idea Bump

View Postebattleon, on 07 June 2017 - 07:03 PM, said:

How about a system where you temporarily lose a random combat level that stack up to ten levels the penalty will last for 24 hrs after last death.


#35 butler

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Posted 15 June 2017 - 04:01 PM

View Postebattleon, on 15 June 2017 - 10:56 AM, said:

Idea Bump

View Postebattleon, on 07 June 2017 - 07:03 PM, said:

How about a system where you temporarily lose a random combat level that stack up to ten levels the penalty will last for 24 hrs after last death.

fairly hard hitting at lower levels that, wouldn't it, since the divide is a bit more significant to them at that point (due to more varied mob selection, opposed to cyclops, and cyclops and cyclops and maybe a feros). maybe between certain xattris and levels based on your overall, your a/d and other combat skills and gaps between this death and last?

#36 Mixi

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Posted 15 June 2017 - 11:47 PM

For now, how about you only make those DL maps no-drop that are a frigging long walk from Hell, like the TM ones. Not everyone plays at a time that the other 4 people are also active.




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