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The value of Items

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#1 SAWolf

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Posted 19 August 2017 - 02:07 PM

Hi,

A couple of months ago Learner added the list of items to Webaccess and I am not sure if anyone has realized the implications of that list...

That list gives the game cost and sell prices mostly from NPCs...the catch is that the server will use those prices to determine if a Boss drop meets the minimum amount a boss will drop for its CL and is mostly accountable for some of the 'low' drops we sometimes see as an example Shelob dropped 1825gc and 2 Used steel 2 edge (Valued at just under 3300gc each?)

See: http://www.other-lif...-new-boss-drops

The items list can be seen when you login to Webaccess at: http://game.other-li...icted/items.php

Please look at some of the items and put out some feedback as too whether the items can be bought and sold at those prices.

Regards
SAWolf

#2 butler

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Posted 19 August 2017 - 06:09 PM

think some of the rings may be 20-60 over pc, and the DL rings costs i think really should be brought down to a third.

Think this list would be easier if it was condensed down to leave out drops that won't happen, being EL specific items.

#3 Learner

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Posted 19 August 2017 - 06:12 PM

The DL ring Cost is what the NPC charges, so they can't be brought down at this time. We don't need the Cost to be what players pay, in most cases it MUST be higher then players are paying.

#4 butler

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Posted 20 August 2017 - 07:39 AM

I just don't see how the dl rings at an NPC for 1k makes any sense to begin with, it makes me actively avoid the rings because you have given them an artificially high price which doesn't reflect they're actual value. I think the price atm is bollocks for them.

#5 Kaddy

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Posted 20 August 2017 - 08:08 AM

LOL you ask for feedback and reject first and the most reasonable feedback.

#6 Learner

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Posted 20 August 2017 - 09:11 AM

View Postbutler, on 20 August 2017 - 07:39 AM, said:

I just don't see how the dl rings at an NPC for 1k makes any sense to begin with, it makes me actively avoid the rings because you have given them an artificially high price which doesn't reflect they're actual value. I think the price atm is bollocks for them.
What SAWolf was posting about was about the Value of the items, not an attempt to change the prices of things being sold. There are many items not being sold where the listed price may not be accurate, and those are very easy to change. Attempting the change a price that affects an NPC is outside of the scope at this time since there are many more factors to be considered. The DL rings for example can't be made and are priced at 1K to allow players a range they can sell them for to other players and changing the NPC price isn't what this thread is about.

The value is currently based on both prices, so the DL ring values isn't the full 1kgc either.

#7 butler

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Posted 20 August 2017 - 02:51 PM

used items all way over (used iron axe for 4k or 400 to sell). 2nd hand ti lon is 10kgc...

modables are as low as 380gc...

Rings of damage 3k

rings of dis 2k...

things like quartz at 7...

MoL at 10k, MoM at 7k...

These are things I'm just finding with a random scroll. I'd suggest looking at player prices and at least using that as a basis.

still, DL rings are the most active drop that's waaaay off (some of the other examples I don't even know if they are in the drop pool).

This would be easier if there was a list of what is actually droppable (are iron plate droppable)?

I'd say take the players standard sell price (since most are pretty standard except for the higher end equipment). and move the price ranges on to and below it by 1/4 to 3/4 depending on it's price

#8 Learner

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Posted 20 August 2017 - 03:20 PM

Not easily done to limit only to dropable items, plus the Cost/Buy columns are the default prices if an NPC deals in that item so it's actually a good idea to look at items which currently aren't associated with NPC's and maybe aren't dropped. In theory, what players would pay should be between the Cost & Buy prices and the distance between the two needs to be big enough to allow for a player market if and NPC was to buy/sell those items.

Many of the bad values are either from EL or pulled out of thin air, and for items NOT involving NPC's we can easily look at making changes. That page isn't just about Drops and not just about a items value!

#9 butler

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Posted 20 August 2017 - 05:03 PM

here is an .ods file with everything not ingame removed (part maybe afew mistakes + vanity items) down to 703 items out of 1187

I will go through some later, however I'm curious how drops are worked out, cause i noticed Warlock Cloak (120k), Mirror Cloak(8k), MM cape (12k), Artificer cape (3.8k), BP cloak (6.5k) didn't match up so much with the drop rates as i thought

#10 Learner

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Posted 20 August 2017 - 05:33 PM

View Postbutler, on 20 August 2017 - 05:03 PM, said:

here is an .ods file with everything not ingame removed (part maybe afew mistakes + vanity items) down to 703 items out of 1187

I will go through some later, however I'm curious how drops are worked out, cause i noticed Warlock Cloak (120k), Mirror Cloak(8k), MM cape (12k), Artificer cape (3.8k), BP cloak (6.5k) didn't match up so much with the drop rates as i thought
The Value doesn't affect the DropRates. The value is used to analyze InvasionBossDrops and can cause additional rolls for more drops if a Bosses TotalValue is below a certain amount compared to CL.The values don't affect the drops themselves, but rather are used to measure how the BossDrop came out for that set of rolls.

#11 WaterBottle

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Posted 24 August 2017 - 08:56 AM

So if the desire is to have the player market prices in between Cost/buy prices of items, my observations from light browsing of commonly used items (hopefully focusing on non-NPC items). Hopefully I understood what the topic wanted input for...
  • Not related... but Used/Degraded items are the same price as the original so... shouldn't be
  • Diss rings buy price (200) is higher than player market selling price
  • Modables are lower than I expected. The higher tier weapons can't become a glowy version from what I know so not much use for those today.
  • Iron Cuisses at 1.1k and Iron Greaves at 5k are below the market
  • Large pack at 5k below the market
Am I doing this right?

#12 Learner

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Posted 24 August 2017 - 09:15 AM

View PostWaterBottle, on 24 August 2017 - 08:56 AM, said:

So if the desire is to have the player market prices in between Cost/buy prices of items, my observations from light browsing of commonly used items (hopefully focusing on non-NPC items). Hopefully I understood what the topic wanted input for...
  • Not related... but Used/Degraded items are the same price as the original so... shouldn't be
  • Diss rings buy price (200) is higher than player market selling price
  • Modables are lower than I expected. The higher tier weapons can't become a glowy version from what I know so not much use for those today.
  • Iron Cuisses at 1.1k and Iron Greaves at 5k are below the market
  • Large pack at 5k below the market
Am I doing this right?
I need exact suggestions on what the prices should be set for Cost & Buy, not just pointing out in general whats off. Only those items & price combinations NOT involving an NPC are being accepted. The Cost for example should be higher by a good margin then what player are paying. since the Value is based on Cot & Buy combined.

#13 butler

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Posted 24 August 2017 - 06:20 PM

That does cut out the vast majority of items, down to simply drop onlys, being large packs, the rare capes, modables, Enriched ess, antidote, invis and ts pots, that would interest you most? the ones completely detached from NPCs including selling.

#14 Learner

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Posted 24 August 2017 - 06:27 PM

View Postbutler, on 24 August 2017 - 06:20 PM, said:

That does cut out the vast majority of items, down to simply drop onlys, being large packs, the rare capes, modables, Enriched ess, antidote, invis and ts pots, that would interest you most? the ones completely detached from NPCs including selling.
If an item is only bought by an NPC, then the Cost for the item could be open for adjustment easily. If the item is only sold by NPC's then the Buy price is open for adjustment without affecting other things.

#15 SAWolf

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Posted 17 September 2017 - 08:46 AM

Suggestion....

Attached Files



#16 CoduX

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 01:30 AM

Thanks for the suggestion SA.

Warlock and I will be hosting a voice discussion in discord on either the 19th or the 20th about this if anybody is keen on participating or just listening in.

#17 butler

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Posted 20 September 2017 - 02:40 PM

He ain't going to change ti chain ,as you can both sell it at Trik and buy it Aluwen priest.

Ti axe ain't in game so no point changing that.

your preowned serp sword is... really low, i'd even say the original setting was closer.

also bitmap file...

#18 Learner

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Posted 20 September 2017 - 02:53 PM

View Postbutler, on 20 September 2017 - 02:40 PM, said:

He ain't going to change ti chain ,as you can both sell it at Trik and buy it Aluwen priest.

Ti axe ain't in game so no point changing that.

your preowned serp sword is... really low, i'd even say the original setting was closer.

also bitmap file...
The BuyPrice column (lower price) on those pages is what the NPC's use as a base for what they will pay hen buying, so items that aren't sold by NPC's, the Sell price is easily tunable with less unexpected side effects on the game.

No reason that items that aren't in game can't have reasonable adjustment to help if/when they are added later. But, they are lower priority for what to worry about. Plus future changes might require those values to be revisited.

#19 butler

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Posted 20 September 2017 - 02:59 PM

View PostLearner, on 20 September 2017 - 02:53 PM, said:

<snip>
No reason that items that aren't in game can't have reasonable adjustment to help if/when they are added later. But, they are lower priority for what to worry about. Plus future changes might require those values to be revisited.

Yeah, but we can't make a sensible price for a nonexistant weapon that I assume would need rebalancing, or changes before it's added (which i assume is why it's not ingame), so there's nothing really to make a sensible price from. You are basically putting an ingame price on a collection of irrelevant words without much idea what they'll mean. Also price tends to be adjusted by players to it's usefulness, and again, nobody knows whether they'd be desirable. I just see it as an act of futility and pointlessness.

#20 Learner

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Posted 20 September 2017 - 03:10 PM

View Postbutler, on 20 September 2017 - 02:59 PM, said:

View PostLearner, on 20 September 2017 - 02:53 PM, said:

<snip>
No reason that items that aren't in game can't have reasonable adjustment to help if/when they are added later. But, they are lower priority for what to worry about. Plus future changes might require those values to be revisited.

Yeah, but we can't make a sensible price for a nonexistant weapon that I assume would need rebalancing, or changes before it's added (which i assume is why it's not ingame), so there's nothing really to make a sensible price from. You are basically putting an ingame price on a collection of irrelevant words without much idea what they'll mean. Also price tends to be adjusted by players to it's usefulness, and again, nobody knows whether they'd be desirable. I just see it as an act of futility and pointlessness.
I know that about non-existent items, was just trying to point it it wasn't a total waste if something is badly out of what. One thing I had to do very early on as Lower all the Used/Degraded items down to the price of the new item since they were horribly high. But I didn't have time to try to think about where they should really go.

Keep in mind we can't really use player prices either since that keep changing, but if the players are trading between the two prices then that means those prices are closer ... but I also think that 'rare items' may be an exception to that since those are much more volatile, and it's probably better not to jack up the servers value way up at this time.





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