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Combat Level Point Counters


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#1 DueCE

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Posted 18 October 2017 - 01:27 AM

Combat Level Point Counters

The purpose of this topic is to bring to light and discuss some of the changes to the way that kills (both player and creature) are logged by the server.  Currently, when a mob is killed in combat by a player, it is logged to the in-game counters as well as to the server #counters. Where this system falls short is two fold: the game has no way of recognizing kills with offensive magic (harm, life drain, poison) from out of combat.  More importantly, the problem with the counters (both system and client) is that it is exactly that, a count; theres no room for assists or “partials”.  The person who gets the final hit on a boss gets the count, while the rest of the team gets nothing.

This has been changed on the test server, and Learner has been exploring different ways of logging kills.  There has been an addition to what I see now as a growing “WebClient”, which stores server side information (and is usually updated in real time too), which we have already seen with the Web Access channels, the SRV tab displaying #recent, etc. (in the last topic on Event automation, L mentions some of the changes that are already available, see: https://www.other-li...__20#entry19350).  There’s another feature available on Web Access now, which allows player kills (from out of combat) to be logged, and better yet, it tracks an individual player’s damage done to a mob (if you kill a boss on test, it will spit out the damage done by each player/summon, similar to the orange ‘Loot’ text you get when you kill a boss).  This feature is just a placeholder to demonstrate the ability to track damage done by player.

Posted Image

With this new system, players get a calculated number of “Combat Level points” based on the damage they did to a mob as well as the mobs CL.  Better yet, if a team kills a boss, each player will receive some number of CL points for the kill (que assists in Other-Life). And one for the mages, spell kills from out of combat also get counted! The new WebClient doesn’t specify if the kill was from magic, range or combat, but it at least accounts for these spell kills. This is only an expansion of the WebClient and not a change to our current counters (therefore there is no @PK Central message for spell kills yet, and the in-game/server counters don’t recognize out of combat spell kills or partials).


;tldr
…so stuff like ‘assist kills’ are possible.  From this point on, are visions of what all these changes actually may look like to the regular player.
  • The player who does the most damage to a boss will get the most number of “CL points” awarded - could be used to determine who gets the most XP (or perhaps even steps onto the bag?)
  • Number of times that CL points are awarded (individual kills) should be tracked as well, so that 10 kills on a 600 CL mobs is not be counted the same as 100 kills on a 60 CL mob
  • Damage tracker can track more than 8 players doing damage to a mob, and everyone will receive some 'CL points'
  • system also logs damage done by summoned creatures and offensive magic spells
If you are able to understand up to this point, kudos to you Posted Image  Now its time to brainstorm more possible benefits of this Combat Level point system.  One possible idea (mentioned by Learner) was a new type of Leaderboard, which tracks players assists.  Not sure if the system can be compatible with current in-game mechanics (i.e. current counters or maybe even current achievements?) but it would be neat to have an achievement for assist kills.  Would be really sweet if damage healed is tracked as well (not sure on this), and have a “Medic rank 1/2/3” achievement for X points of health healed.

What other features could the combat level point system bring?

#2 Learner

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Posted 18 October 2017 - 05:52 AM

What's there is currently considered proof-of-concept and has several known issues/concerns:

* Doesn't properly separate players from mobs of the same name (aka Rat vs a rat) (fixed 10/20/2017)
* Timed spells like Poison can't be attributed to the caster. fix TBD
* Melee damage does get combined with Ranging and Magic from the same source and this is not likely to change. It does know multiple types were used but not how much of each. Expected to stay this way
* Healing isn't tracked other then to subtract from the damage so that the total accounted for is never higher then the actual damage. The subtraction happens from entries that have been the longest since any damaged caused. As currently designed
* Any combination with CL will be based on the CL at time of death. If items break during combat that does lower the mobs CL during the fight. There are no plans to keep the original CL, only the current.
* There is currently no assignment of CL points to players based on this yet, that is proposed based on input from players
* CL awards to players needs to account for players that aren't logged at the point of awarding, or should they not get it?
*

Please refer to the web stuff as WebAccess to reduce confusion or misunderstandings since WebClient implies so much more.

#3 butler

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Posted 18 October 2017 - 10:02 AM

Please also track damage dealt to players by the mobs in assists, as that'd be a good way to add weighting towards those tanking. Another thing to think about is heals given (so you can track the healers as well).

Just saying this because this still weights damage dealers quite highly.

Also does mirror count towards damage?

#4 Learner

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Posted 18 October 2017 - 10:11 AM

View Postbutler, on 18 October 2017 - 10:02 AM, said:

Please also track damage dealt to players by the mobs in assists, as that'd be a good way to add weighting towards those tanking. Another thing to think about is heals given (so you can track the healers as well).

Just saying this because this still weights damage dealers quite highly.

Also does mirror count towards damage?
The damage is tracked no matter if the target is a mob or a player. It even tracks mob vs mob damage. Just for testing purpose it currently only reports when a Boss is killed it's information. The damage done to a player is tracked on that player not on the creature or player dealing the damage. Otherwise it starts getting very complicated when to remove that information. As it is if a player fights a Giganta and takes damage from it, then fights and dies to another Giganta, the Giganta damage logged against him may still include damage from the first (subject to healing subtractions)

#5 Bat17

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Posted 18 October 2017 - 11:12 AM

If I understand correctly a 100hp tank will show a max of 100 damage if he dies even if he has been getting lots of heals. I think it would be better to show the total damage he had to sustain to do his job.

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#6 Learner

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Posted 18 October 2017 - 11:18 AM

View PostBat17, on 18 October 2017 - 11:12 AM, said:

If I understand correctly a 100hp tank will show a max of 100 damage if he dies even if he has been getting lots of heals. I think it would be better to show the total damage he had to sustain to do his job.

Bat17
I do admit that the current system is biased to tracking better how a mob or player was killed. Not an attempt to track what was needed to do a job. I thinks Tanks will continue to have difficulty being properly addressed until we can build a proper PartySystem. But, this is also why we need to talk and bounce ideas around as well to look at what we have available means and whats worthwhile to try to add in the short term as well as looking at long term.

Part of the issue with trying to deal with Tanks is that how much damage a high level Boss can deal out is potentially very high, and there isn't a good reliable way to differentiate between different attempts to kill the Boss without introducing other undesirable side effects. Care needs to be take to think about multiple attempts by multiple groups of people on the same Boss as one example to think about, another is how could someone bend the rules and abuse it?

#7 butler

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Posted 18 October 2017 - 12:07 PM

One thing i do think could be improved is the name. Unless i've misunderstood, it's not really attached to the current combat level you get from #arm, etc. so maybe name it something like Assist Points, or anything that we can distinguish a bit easier in short hand, even if it's just referred to as CLP.

#8 Learner

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Posted 18 October 2017 - 12:24 PM

View Postbutler, on 18 October 2017 - 12:07 PM, said:

One thing i do think could be improved is the name. Unless i've misunderstood, it's not really attached to the current combat level you get from #arm, etc. so maybe name it something like Assist Points, or anything that we can distinguish a bit easier in short hand, even if it's just referred to as CLP.
There has been no intensive attempt yet to come up with a term, the original concept was more about awarding points based on the mobs CL vs % of damage done by people instead of just awarding a single kill to people.

#9 Learner

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Posted 18 October 2017 - 01:31 PM

KAP ... Kill Award Points? since they are awarded based on kills?

#10 Learner

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Posted 19 October 2017 - 05:09 AM

Is it worthwhile for a player to see the DamageTracker information for themselves when they die on Main once this goes live?

#11 Learner

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Posted 20 October 2017 - 07:00 AM

Test now tracks damage from players seperate form mobs with the same name now.

#12 Learner

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Posted 20 October 2017 - 07:32 AM

View PostLearner, on 19 October 2017 - 05:09 AM, said:

Is it worthwhile for a player to see the DamageTracker information for themselves when they die on Main once this goes live?
Maybe make this a Premium feature since it's not P2WIN. Every time you die after then death message you see what players/mobs/bosses/summons have damage credited against you. Would answers Q's about "What killed me?" and be handy if you get PK'd as well. While I doubt anyone would get Premium just for this, might be a nice addition?

#13 Warlock

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Posted 20 October 2017 - 07:35 AM

View PostLearner, on 20 October 2017 - 07:00 AM, said:

Test now tracks damage from players seperate form mobs with the same name now.

Great work!

View PostLearner, on 20 October 2017 - 07:32 AM, said:

View PostLearner, on 19 October 2017 - 05:09 AM, said:

Is it worthwhile for a player to see the DamageTracker information for themselves when they die on Main once this goes live?
Maybe make this a Premium feature since it's not P2WIN. Every time you die after then death message you see what players/mobs/bosses/summons have damage credited against you. Would answers Q's about "What killed me?" and be handy if you get PK'd as well. While I doubt anyone would get Premium just for this, might be a nice addition?

I think it's a good idea, the information isn't exactly essential for players to see, and does make a nice addition to premium.

I say go for it!

#14 WaterBottle

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Posted 20 October 2017 - 07:50 AM

I wouldn't be against having it for premium but I have no strong opinion one way or another. I can see it is a 'nice to have' feature that wouldn't be P2W since it just gives more information for those that would like it vs any in-game advantage.

Just giving input as part of the community.

#15 Warlock

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Posted 20 October 2017 - 07:53 AM

[14:49:34] Warlock left us for a better world.
[14:49:34] mob Feros - 33
[14:49:34] mob Grizzly Bear - 35
[14:49:34] mob Hawk - 1
[14:49:34] boss Lupin - 160
[14:49:34] You have died and gone to the Underworld!

Sometimes your physical death counters mess up and say 'While fighting unknown opponent' aswell

#16 Learner

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Posted 20 October 2017 - 08:11 AM

View PostWarlock, on 20 October 2017 - 07:53 AM, said:

[14:49:34] Warlock left us for a better world.
[14:49:34] mob Feros - 33
[14:49:34] mob Grizzly Bear - 35
[14:49:34] mob Hawk - 1
[14:49:34] boss Lupin - 160
[14:49:34] You have died and gone to the Underworld!

Sometimes your physical death counters mess up and say 'While fighting unknown opponent' aswell
The unknown opponent is because the client has to guess, the Server doesn't tell the Client specifically. Also keep in mind that damage from things like walking on Lava isn't tracked either, so a Premium could die without any extra information as to why.

#17 Learner

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Posted 20 October 2017 - 04:58 PM

Test has been enhanced with more information for people with active Premium that want to see what this currentl shows for players with Premium dying ... Poison still not accounted for.

#18 butler

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Posted 21 October 2017 - 02:16 PM

View PostWaterBottle, on 20 October 2017 - 07:50 AM, said:

I wouldn't be against having it for premium but I have no strong opinion one way or another. I can see it is a 'nice to have' feature that wouldn't be P2W since it just gives more information for those that would like it vs any in-game advantage.

Just giving input as part of the community.

one little thing is I'd say this would be nice to for everyone in pvp.

#19 Learner

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Posted 21 October 2017 - 02:26 PM

We're currently testing POISON being tracked in the DamageTracker. It gets categorized as Timed to allow for future expansion by other things. If you are poisoned and the get poisoned by someone also, any new damage will shoft to the newest person or mob that poisoned you, but old damage is still counted against previous attackers.

#20 Warlock

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Posted 21 October 2017 - 07:25 PM

Lets be real now, there's no PVP anymore, there hasn't been for years.. No REAL PVP anyway. And its most likely going to stay that way.

The extra info should be specific to Premium, it's not ESSENTIAL for anybody to have it, including PKers/PVPers, its more likely to be needed with regular gameplay.

It's just nice to have as a small bonus

Doesnt even cost much to buy, can buy with 3 plats/month or 30 plats/yea




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