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No wall acces !


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#1 Ashitaka

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Posted 26 October 2017 - 08:04 AM

Why in lot of place there is wall or nice spot but we just can't tp in to range...  ? could be nice to have more spot to range.

https://imgur.com/a/JxsXq

https://imgur.com/a/nUMCB

#2 WaterBottle

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Posted 26 October 2017 - 12:16 PM

I am not a dev so I can't say why. It could simply be it was never done to make those tiles/areas tele-able (or essentially walkable).

Or there could be an actual reason/it was thought of but this is why one can't range from there. It is a good question to bring up though; would also be a good place for mages/healers.

Edited by WaterBottle, 26 October 2017 - 12:22 PM.


#3 butler

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Posted 27 October 2017 - 07:22 AM

you can't tp onto those walls because the map creater hasn't heightmapped it for you to go onto those walls. If they don't have stair access, this can create problems for spawning invasions, as mobs can get stuck up on these walls. For example, in the map I'm working on, theres a large number of these walls that I've made tp-able, but that has reduced where spawns can really be done for invasions.

This probably would rely on where IM's spawn mobs, and if the wall is suitable in how it aligns to the grid. The arch in the first example requires a checkers/chessboard pattern so that you can walk above and below, as you can't have two height maps on one tile atm. That is one tile wide so you'd have issues doing that one well.

Also keep in mind that height doesn't affect that ability to attack across two neighbouring tiles, so you could have one mapped to -2.00 meters and one mapped to +4.00 and they'd still be able to attack even though really they shouldn't. This kind of makes arches, in their current way of doing overlapping maps, quite bad for archers (think invance/glacmor map, it was the main danger point for ranging on the walls).

Hope this helps.

#4 WaterBottle

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Posted 27 October 2017 - 08:21 AM

Does the latter half of your post relate to the fact I was attacked while on a bridge in MG but the mobs were in the trench below (and vice versa has happened too)?

#5 Learner

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Posted 27 October 2017 - 08:50 AM

View PostWaterBottle, on 27 October 2017 - 08:21 AM, said:

Does the latter half of your post relate to the fact I was attacked while on a bridge in MG but the mobs were in the trench below (and vice versa has happened too)?
That is exactly a problem anytime you have two extreme highest next to or over each other. The server totally ignores height differences during combat and sees a flat world. Only during & ranging movement is height given consideration.

#6 WaterBottle

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Posted 27 October 2017 - 11:31 AM

So unless you were high up and had at least one tile separation at the same height between you and the lower elevation AND the mob couldn't go under you (basically no bridge or overhead arch is safe), there wouldn't be a point, at the moment, from a combat perspective to tele to those spots as you wouldn't be safe?

I presume that's pretty low on the priority of changes (if it is to be changed)?

#7 Ashitaka

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Posted 27 October 2017 - 03:37 PM

Why just not make wall larger to make mobs not attack us from there ? like in the DTF maps, we can only do 2 steps and we are attacked... make wall larger so we can stay in the middle and rang without the fear to be attacked ?

And for the Fort in DL maps, in my opinion what the point to have wall if you can't go on them to defend your city ?? Linda usless wall to me.

#8 Learner

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Posted 27 October 2017 - 04:03 PM

View PostAshitaka, on 27 October 2017 - 03:37 PM, said:

Why just not make wall larger to make mobs not attack us from there ? like in the DTF maps, we can only do 2 steps and we are attacked... make wall larger so we can stay in the middle and rang without the fear to be attacked ?

And for the Fort in DL maps, in my opinion what the point to have wall if you can't go on them to defend your city ?? Linda usless wall to me.
It still keeps the mobs from coming in that way even if you can't range from up there. Not useless.

#9 butler

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Posted 29 October 2017 - 06:36 AM

So with making the walls larger, that depends entirely on what models you choose for the wall, and how you place it on the grid. Depending on that you might be able to make it seperated by a tile and thus defendable. In terms of walls being used for ranging from, if these had stairs up then that would make sense, however, requiring magic to access them might break the logic for that. I am a fan of making them walkable, but as i said previously, this can mean we get a bunch of mobs spawned in an unanticipated area due to the nature of how invasion spawns are handled (i can't remember where L explained it, but the spawn takes up quite an area iirc, so ones on the edge could quite easily get "stuck", see WSC, certain parts of portland, etc. that we've had issues before). Also consider hitting a tele nexus and getting stuck on top of a wall. That's part of why there's a certain thought process through where and when we make them walkable.

Posted Image

Just as a simple illustration of how we generally do walls or bridges between heights greater than the walkable ones. (sorry, but didn't want to boot up another computer to use map ed to show it).

Every bridge over another walkable area, you'll notice your character takes a strange waving line, that's because of this limitation.

And just in terms of wall practical use in RL, it tends to be to keep people out, and to allow you're smaller numbers to defend against larger through both height and the number they could actually front if they breached (5000 versus 1000 isn't such a great advantage if you can only have 20 men on the frontline at any time). Walls in RL would also tend to be occupied from inside, with the slits in the wall allowing ranging from within without so much vulnerability as the wall. Our walls also don't quite have the same protection on the battlements as you would experience in most genuine castle.

#10 Zian

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Posted 02 November 2017 - 07:21 PM

View PostAshitaka, on 26 October 2017 - 08:04 AM, said:

Why in lot of place there is wall or nice spot but we just can't tp in to range...  ? could be nice to have more spot to range.

https://imgur.com/a/JxsXq

https://imgur.com/a/nUMCB

Hey Ashitaka

Basically...the DL map locations that your referring have not been designed to be 'teleported to range' as yet. All 'castles' will be special upgrade in the future - there is one castle that you can 'walk' or 'TPR' is located in RL.

Regards
Z

#11 BattleWizard

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Posted 05 November 2017 - 08:57 PM

It's really too easy, and alot of fun when making Rangeable walls.

#12 Zian

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Posted 07 November 2017 - 01:13 PM

View PostBattleWizard, on 05 November 2017 - 08:57 PM, said:

It's really too easy, and alot of fun when making Rangeable walls.

The recent update/release of Morog includes walkable town walls/towers :)

Regards
Z




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