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#1 CoduX

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Posted 30 December 2017 - 06:34 AM

Hello my good friends of Alroth!

First off, I hope you all had a Merry Christmas and with NYE upon us, I wish you a Happy New Year!

There is much to be discussed here in this post so please, take a seat, grab a coffee and some treats, and relax.

This is about the discussion of a server wipe.

I know what you will think. You are thinking 'No way! I have spent years on this character, grinding out my skills to be where they are now..and for all of it to be wiped?!'
Alas, I did think the same thing at first. But the more I did research and logistics of where the server was back when it started, to where it is now, I was blown away at not only how far we have come as a community, but as a family. There have been friendships made that will last a lifetime here..that is something special that no money can buy.
However, the amount of players playing and interested in the development of the game has dwindled to only a select few. Believe me I know, I've been here since pretty much the start of this server.
But we ask ourselves, why and how has this happened? With the production of new mobs, new maps, new ideas and creating new server-side/web-side, we have not seen an increase of players..only the polar opposite unfortunately.
Yes we do see players come back, but they see that nothing majorly new is happening, that development is too slow, or that they remember how much of a grind the game is. This causes for the player to leave again, no incentive to stay with how the game is current. Wouldn't it be nice to have players logging on regularly like the old days? (When I say old days for you younger players, this was easily 50+ players on at peak time). The ideas and suggestions would flood in more, creating new ideas and concepts that none of the current players have even thought of!

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What is the root of the problem? How can we fix this?

What I am proposing is the start of a fresh, totally new, server wide wipe. That's right. Totally new characters, no items on you or in storage (exception here, see below), everybody starting out at the same equal playing field.
Before you instantly disagree with this, let me share with you some logistics to support why this is a benefit to not only the players, but to Learner himself.

From the start of Other-Life, we saw numerous players come in. About 99% of the players at the start of the life of OL, came from EL. There were numerous reasons as to why they had switched over servers. From players who were sick of how things were being done in EL, to banned EL accounts wanting a fresh start, to players who just wanted a new server and to be heard, to be listened to when nobody would in EL.
It was the start of something special.
As the years have gone on, we have seen a steady dip in players until recently, when I have seen on occasion, 0 players online. Yes, it has happened. The being around the time of Christmas and new years could have cause to it, but even then in past years I've always seen at least one person online.

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This. Needs. To. Change.

So basically here is the run down;

The server is wiped. We still have of course, the awesome maps that Zian has produced for us and will be our new home once we have transferred everything over so we can leave C1 forever.
We all start out on the same page as fresh characters. No storage, with the exception of plats and other cosmetic shop-bought items we have bought or have on us. Any bought P2P will carry over with your character to make it fair since that is bought with money.
As much as it pains me and also a lot of people to do this, because not only are we throwing away years and years of hard work to level our skills, a lot of us have spent $ on soft resets and plats to help you Learner, with your monthly payments. But it is a sacrifice most of us are willing to make to make OL better in the long run.

If this were to happen, the amount of positives and benefits clearly outshines the negatives, as this will allow us to properly execute OL to what it should be, not what it is in it's current state.

For one, I have talked to a LOT of inactive players who have long quit OL, and with proof, the majority of them seemed interested and will come back to play. This is great news as this increases our player base substantially. The more player base we have = more chance of buying shop items from Learner which helps to pay for the monthly server costs, web page and other things.
So basically more players = more revenue for Learner.

Another positive with this, would be the reset of all gold coins. We all know how much of a problem the hyper-inflation of gold coins have become and while there are gold sinks, the main problem has not vasnished. The Gold Coin is not even considered a currency anymore currently. Items are pretty much traded these days because of how stupidly rare they are and how easily gold coin is to come by.
A wipe would mean no more accumilated gold coin stockpiled. This instantly solves the currently problem. But it doesn't solve the main source of the problem, which I will come to that later.

In turn with the negative impact of hyper-inflated gold being removed, a new economy is finally born. There is currently little to no market at the moment, which has been resulted by a lack of players and the price of items being driven up. An economy drives a game forward, trade and barter are an important key element in any society being either in a game or in real life.
Questionable prices will be reset, we can finally make a new, improved economy and market that will be more stable.

But before any of this becomes a reality, we must first fix the broken things that made this problem in the first place so it doesn't happen again.

First and foremost, the Skill Cap. 105 is just not good enough with the exp curve. I am talking about millions of exp just to reach anywhere, and billions to reach the end.
My suggestion to fix this, is to raise the cap to at the very least 120. This is a debatable figure, but more realistically going to be accepted. The exp curve will still be the same, but will move with the max cap. So in other words, a skill or oa being 100, is realistically reachable.
I would also like to see the the harder skills to level up more fluently. An example of this would be the Harvesting skill, where you are only limited to 120 harvests per hour currently. In conjuction to this, I propose a change on the amount of harvests:exp per hour.

What does this bring us next?

As the cap would be raised, this allows for some more nastier creatures to enter the game, such as Frost Trolls, Cockatrice, Yeti, even possibly Nasps to correspond with the new gainable a/d levels.
But how would we fight them? With the old Titanium Sword or Serpent Sword if you are fortunate enough to own one?
No this, ladies and gentlemen, will allow for some more incentive to get new weapons and armors into the game once balanced. We could potentially be looking at Steel Plate for armor, Rapiers and Orc Slayers for weapons (as an example).
This for sure, is a postive step in the right direction for a successful wipe.

Now for you Learner, what do you get out of all of this?
As I have already mentioned before, old players who will come back have a new incentive to play and are a lot more likely to spend money on plats for various things which in turn, will produce you more money and revenue you. You have said yourself several times that you have been short of money to keep the server up. Who can say no to money in helping not only yourself, but us as well?
Not only that but in my experience, is that word of mouth travels fast and other players from EL may want to join as they will also have an equal footing. Advertisement is key for a successful game. Let it be done right this time around, without things missing and a half broken game for us to wander and grind with. This may or may not also create inspiration for you. Who knows? Einstein didn't get to where he was by not taking risks.

In saying all of this however, the wipe will not be done until we have fixed or are comfortable with several things to make sure that the transition is as smooth as possible, and everything works as it should. We are not going down the same road as we have done by playing and adding bits and pieces here and there on an already broken system. We will be ready and function-able this time around. We have the advantage of some beautiful maps done by Zian, with more insides on several maps on the way with several spawns and harvestables already done.

If this gets the nod from god himself, then I wish to discuss the following in other topics to not clutter this thread;

Skill/OA Cap/PP's
Items (armor, weapon & medallions)
Nexus
Perks
Creatures
Creature Spawns
Harvestable Locations
Loyalty Give-back
Economy
Other(s)

What other way is there to start a new year, than with a new beginning? Will you stand with me to achieve this?

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#2 CoduX

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Posted 30 December 2017 - 06:44 AM

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#3 Learner

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Posted 30 December 2017 - 07:07 AM

Keep in mind if the Exp Curve is changes the PP/OA should also be adjusted so that the max PickPoints stays the same. This also affects the Perks being developed. Secondly, Having a higher cap doesn't automatically mean all those monsters come in, but does give it easier to have wider range of mobs.

Just saying to move the cap to 120 by itself isn't a clear enough definition, Someone will need to champion playing with exp formulas to work out the desired result and this will have to be tested by players to see if it's what they really intend.

Also, one reason the 90-105 levels are so rough to level was some peoples attempts to make PvP more reasonable with the EL style combat range, the Sigmoid Combat that has been worked with on Test was one attempt to not make the range to limited. I think someone needs to pick that up again and check it out in more detail to see if that should also be included at the same time. The issues with the EL style formula some people have referred to as the 10 level limit, where if you were outside of that range in A/D it was impractical to even fight.

Keep in mind a Total wipe is easy. But you are talking about conditional wipes where certain things (like Plats & Store clothing) stay in which complicates things a lot more.

Finally, I've never been against a wipe, but I do require large percentage of the players to vote for it. Which means once details are ironed out, then you can get solid numbers via a Poll, thats what the Polls are for after all Posted Image Plus, probably each portion of the changes should have it's own approval process, and some changes could go live before a wipe so players have a chance to feel how it is before a wipe.

I do recommend the first post be editted with links to other thread as this discussion is continued.

Remember, I've always said almost anything can be changed by the players, and that does include full wipes even. Just need to make sure the proper processes are followed so we know it is really what most want and not just something a couple people are yelling about.

P.S. Those are just some items that jumped into my mind from a quick scanned. Will be rereading again repeatedly.

#4 Zian

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Posted 30 December 2017 - 11:03 AM

I don't get guys. Doesn't really matter how the 'game' + 'game play' is setup...its about the 'time' invested. I still see that at the end of a year after a swipe you would still have players who only invested about 1 week of game hours compared to others investing alot more and you would have the same imbalance.

I don't see how a swipe, in the long run, will fix anything.

I would vote for NO Server Swipe!

Regards
Z

#5 SAWolf

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Posted 30 December 2017 - 12:02 PM

Firstly, I agree with you that ‘something’ needs to be done to secure the future of OL.

However a server wipe imo is not the solution. I feel that you are seeing the ‘wipe’ as a solution when it may only solve a symptom and not the root cause of OL’s problems.

You say that the core of the people in OL happiness is the togetherness of friends and I agree fully. Many of our long standing players are here cause they feel the sense of community and a sense of duty to be there for their friends.

In your very next paragraph you hint at the exact cause of people leaving:

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Yes we do see players come back, but they see that nothing majorly new is happening, that development is too slow, or that they remember how much of a grind the game is.

How much of a grind the game is? And you want everyone to go back and start over?

Then you go on to list all the good things about having more players…yes we want more players but as you already stated they won’t stay cause of the ‘grind’ which is an inherent part of this game isn't it?

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everybody starting out at the same equal playing field

Yes but for how long? If I spend 8 hours in game semi-afk, chatting to AlddrA and harvesting a couple sunflowers how much exp do I get compared with someone who spends those 8 hours avidly training?
After a month there will always be inequality between those that can and will spend hours grinding and those that don’t.

Should you punish those that grind? NO. Should you punish those that don’t? NO. Just let people play at their own pace.

Why did people leave EL? Cause they were tired of Radu and liked the refreshing nuances of OL it was a ‘different game’ but had things they knew and some interesting positives like the kill bonus.

The one thing about your post that worries me is that you are making out that a wipe will ‘fix’ prices, bring in new armors, new spawns, new mobs? How can you equate ‘a wipe’ to that? New items, new recipes, new spawns…we can have those in the game without having a wipe! They just need someone to sit and work it out, do the balancing and it can happen. I have asked Learner, and even to adjust the cap, a wipe is not a requirement.

Then my last objection from your post:

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What other way is there to start a new year, than with a new beginning? Will you stand with me to achieve this?

A wipe right now? Are you kidding me? There is no way that DL, the new spawns, the new weapons, items or perks can be done by then? Learner is one person but he is trying his utmost to make hooks into the server so that other people can do stuff and not have to rely on him all the time. Are you going to want a wipe next year again when all those things are done and players all have unequal levels of a/d, summoning, ranging etc, when some players have hundreds of thousands of gc and others have just a little?

I am ALL for new things, I believe new content is the ONLY way that you can keep players interested but you have stated in multiple places that is not what your post is about…your post is about a server wipe...leveling a playing field for everyone? But everyone doesn’t have the same amount of time available to level their characters so in fact it will always be a temporary situation that will change from the second the first player logs on after the wipe…

I understand many people may be upset with this post but I am most certainly not for wiping my character and all the skills and levels I put my hard earned time on for some whim or 'believed myth that it will make the world a better place'.

I would rather spend my time working at making spawns for new lands, helping design events and improving existing as more interesting stuff for players to do, a world boss or more native spawns that trigger bosses, maybe in the future helping to balance new mobs than having all the 'fun' part of my game wiped so I need to start over. I just got to be able to just kill a solo clops...now I must start over? Hell No

#6 Kaddy

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Posted 30 December 2017 - 12:47 PM

Is it possible to change exp curve and cap without wipe?

The only thing from L’s post that is positive to me is that “more cap is good for larger range of mobs”. Yeah, many are bored of cycs already, I had over 40k before I leave...

And L were too afraid to add double fluffy and added a Feros spawn that is complete joke.

#7 Learner

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Posted 30 December 2017 - 01:14 PM

View PostKaddy, on 30 December 2017 - 12:47 PM, said:

Is it possible to change exp curve and cap without wipe?

The only thing from L’s post that is positive to me is that “more cap is good for larger range of mobs”. Yeah, many are bored of cycs already, I had over 40k before I leave...

And L were too afraid to add double fluffy and added a Feros spawn that is complete joke.
Yes, it's possible to change the exp curve & cap without a wipe. Only takes a little bit of extra code to make sure that the player levels are recalculated.

But what about thinking on things that can make it fun to play instead of just grinding on a new spawn just to train?

#8 ebattleon

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Posted 30 December 2017 - 01:23 PM

I'd Vote NO cause the way I see it is OL is a small boat in a big ocean with a Captain at the helm who thinks he is god. Server wipe or no OL is doomed.

#9 Kaddy

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Posted 30 December 2017 - 02:14 PM

View PostLearner, on 30 December 2017 - 01:14 PM, said:

View PostKaddy, on 30 December 2017 - 12:47 PM, said:

Is it possible to change exp curve and cap without wipe?

The only thing from L’s post that is positive to me is that “more cap is good for larger range of mobs”. Yeah, many are bored of cycs already, I had over 40k before I leave...

And L were too afraid to add double fluffy and added a Feros spawn that is complete joke.
Yes, it's possible to change the exp curve & cap without a wipe. Only takes a little bit of extra code to make sure that the player levels are recalculated.

But what about thinking on things that can make it fun to play instead of just grinding on a new spawn just to train?

You mean GuildHalls? Coz you were working on them for months now.......

You never ever listen to what I say anyways.

I suggested many stuff, weapons, instance-like stuff. But these are all after a gonna-be magic update (which you should be working on it instead of stupid halls), summoning update, ranging update.

I really think magic update itself would be enough for a start.

After magic update, better drop rate, more weapons and armors (not like EL, none should be overpowered above others - check my weapons suggestion) more spawns, more stable economy - make gc valuable - are needed.

And sorry, I don’t think you have the ability to fix those problems. You are a perfect programmer, but no developer in my eyes.

That is why I quit really, I lost my belief in you.

So, reading your main original post - I don’t think wipe is going to happen, neither will anything better lol.

#10 Warlock

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Posted 30 December 2017 - 03:03 PM

The point in the wipe, Eb/Zian, was to bring a new influx of players, players from EL

Theres fresh competition with a char wipe, competition itself brings new players, = more revenue to L

the way the cap is right now, im basically end game, u know how fking boring that is? i would welcome a char wipe with open arms lol.

when theres competition, theres rivalry, that is when games are at their best

what rivalry is there on OL? the lvl cap has seen to that ffs

we need steel platemail atleast BY NOW!!!! has been far too long without one item being added, come on now

having a cap of 105 LIMITS us on what we can have, no matter who 'championed' the first cap/exp definitions lol, and who did anyway? ofc L

#11 Learner

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Posted 30 December 2017 - 03:04 PM

I'm just asking people to look for what else can be fun besides just grinding.

#12 Kaddy

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Posted 30 December 2017 - 03:15 PM

View PostLearner, on 30 December 2017 - 03:04 PM, said:

I'm just asking people to look for what else can be fun besides just grinding.

Magic update will be fun, will you START it TODAY? Stopping everything you do right now.

You promised it 3-4 years ago anyways.

#13 Warlock

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Posted 30 December 2017 - 03:49 PM

[Perk system be defined properly], few new weapons for us, armours, even some crown sets.... surely everything but square brackets  isnt so hard to add

#14 Bat17

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Posted 30 December 2017 - 05:38 PM

I have agreed with the new start and am among those with the most to lose, but I have to agree with Warlock, with no competition there is little incentive to keep making stuff. I have more GC than I can use.
I know some ppl would say that I should blow it training, but fighting is not my thing.

I have put Bat on the back-burner twice now and raised new characters because it was fun to see levels being achieved again.
I agree that the reset itself will only reset the clock not cure any underlying issues but it will add a bit of spice to the game for a while.

I agree with L that there should be links for all the side topics that will become part and parcel of this topic, but I also wonder if we should hold the ballot reasonably quickly, possibly non-binding, to find out if there is a mandate for a reset before a lot of effort gets wasted.

As well as the graphs that CoduX posted there is also a year graph that shows the trend much more clearly, though maybe L can provide the chart over an even longer time frame so that cycles can be seen.

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#15 EatsAllLife

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Posted 30 December 2017 - 08:18 PM

I'd say no, not because of levels, but the rares coming in, it took what, 3-4 years for one camo cape, and there was only 1 artificer for at least 3... All those items gone, storages built, etc. I don't think that wiping the server and restarting would bring many people back, they still have the same mindset, there is nothing, and it is all repeat...

~Eats

#16 Kurama

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Posted 30 December 2017 - 08:26 PM

Can't even imagine how long it's gonna take...

It looks exactly like the "soon to be" perk system or magic. I really hope that server wipe, will happen asap.


btw for the lvl cap's... it's really stupid atm, only fun thing is invasion... why would I grind to get max a/d if I can kill almos everything with 80 which is easy to get

#17 RAT

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Posted 30 December 2017 - 09:31 PM

first off idk how my name gotten on the supportive list. really i dont think JUST a server wipe gonna bring in new players, thats almost laughable. i'd be supportive of a server wipe if some big changes were coming. Levels/items they're all easy to come by here. I'm almost certain nobody quit this game because other people were much higher levels or had so much better items than them. I'm sure they quit the game because of the progress of the game. So now you think old players will come back to the game to with because they're equal with everyone ? I doubt it. If the cap can be raised without a wipe why don't we start there? Theres got to be big changes before a server wipe comes into play. The ONLY thing a server restart would do right now is keep the currently active players from bothering L asking when something actually entertaining will be implemented

#18 Zian

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Posted 30 December 2017 - 09:43 PM

I still don't agree with the argument that a server wipe brings in new players!

It's like saying 'lets wipe the server clean every 6 months'...this will keep the 'playing field' balanced.

I would still vote NO!

Does anyone remember server wipe in EL??? everyone still complains that economy this, economy that, etc etc

Regards
Z

#19 Kurama

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Posted 31 December 2017 - 05:00 AM

I think some people didn't even read the post... :)

#20 ZeN

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Posted 31 December 2017 - 07:30 AM

ok ive read the post and also had discussuions with warlock,alddra,codux to name a few about this proposed wipe,

It does intrigue me to the wonderers of starting anew and regaining lvls again and being as im getting older ,i firstly wonder if im ever going too reach what would be the end or near end of a game.
Maybe if cap 120 is made,is there any posibility that say 130 could be added down the road and if the 1,8 pps per overall could be increased too 1.9 or even 2 pps per oa lv, later on.
In truth im not a huge FAN of capped games as things get bottleneck up,
But theres definately food for thought with some of the suggestions being thrown into the mix.So ill certainly be watching and reading any forture posts.

Regards  ZEN




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