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Possible change to Kill Bonus?


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#1 Learner

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Posted 13 January 2018 - 04:19 PM

Right now, the Kill bonus gives A & D exp bonuses to the player that lands a killing blow on a mob. That's great for 1V1 but not in a group situation and has multiple weaknesses. For example if the mob dies from something else other then a combat blow, no bonus experience is given. Other issues become more pronounced on Bosses on multi combat. For example Ranges, Mages, & Tanks also don't get anything in most cases.

With the new Damage Tracker that has been added we have a chance to improve on this. Though is still doesn't cover all cases, but may be a step towards a better system.

1. Enhance Damage Tracker so we know how many times the mob attacked players without killing them. If the mob killed a player only that one attack doesn't count, if it attacks and you live (whether or not it hit or did damage) it gets counted as one point.
2. When a mob dies, the Attack Bonus points get split up according to how much damage each player did which helped kill it for players still logged in.
3. Players that did any Melee Damage at all get their share as Attack exp, even if they also did Ranging or Magic damage as well.
4. Players that did only Ranging Damage get it as Ranging exp
5. Players that did only Magic Damage get it as Magic exp
6. Players that did both Magic & Ranging damage will split the exp between Magic & Ranging.
7. The Defense Bonus Exp will be given out based on how many attacks were made to each player still logged in that did not kill the player. This means people that were in Melee with the mob and survived attacks s little bit will get Defense Exp, and a Tank will tend to get more Defense Exp if he keeps the mobs attention.

Added 1/15/2018
8. Possibly give the player that dealt the killing damage (by any method) an exp bonus to the Attack Bonus that will be added as Attack/Range/Magic as defined in 3-6 above.

The bonus exp would be able to get split up even if the mob isn't killed via combat and attempts to split it up reasonably well without attempting to track how much damage was done by all the different types of attacks. The Damage Tracker only tracks the total per player and what categories involved, not damage by type which would make things very complicated.

The known weaknesses with this idea is that Defensive & Healing Magic doesn't get you a bonus, and Summons are left out in the cold since Summoning doesn't track properly in the Damage Tracker. Also, a player must still be logged in when the monster dies, but they don't have to be active with the been mob.

Keep in mind that as mobs heals 'old' damage from a player that hasn't hit them recently fades away so someone that fights and has been gone too long wont get experience. Also if a mob fully heals, that removed all Damage Track information, including all the players it attacked.

While this isn't a full fix, what do you think of this as an improvement? Do you have other ideas an suggestions?

#2 sirdan

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Posted 13 January 2018 - 10:21 PM

This is a colossal improvement! I can't think of any suggestions at the moment, sounds pretty well thought out.

#3 EatsAllLife

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Posted 13 January 2018 - 10:46 PM

It seems like a nice project in the long run. Some questions:
  • About how long do you think it would take to complete once it is started?
  • Would it split the whole kill bonus between everyone? Or would it give every participant a % of the initial kill bonus?
    • so say a kill bonus is 100 (just for easy numbers) would it give 100 to the rangers in ranging? 100 in a/d, 100 magic, etc. etc. Or would it be like 20 to a ranger, 20 to a mage, 20 to attackers and defenders?
    • I feel it'd be better to give everyone something complete , rather than a portion of the KB, as they all put in a full effort.
  • Also, how will the exp system work for everyone after this? With it all using a single system, will it all somehow use the same kill bonus? So that everything just gives a higher kill bonus? Or will it be set for things, and regular mobs don't get a higher?
Just some simple question I have to consider in this, but I say go for it!

~Eats

#4 Kaddy

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Posted 14 January 2018 - 04:36 AM

I think this is a great idea.

I think some improvement to the boss exp would be required, sometimes you kill a very hard boss and get so little exp. The exp boost of bosses would encourage for more people to join hard bosses too!

While I think this is a good topic, I honestly believe that new items/spawns/exp curve should be considered and being worked on first.

-Kaddy

#5 Learner

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Posted 14 January 2018 - 07:56 AM

View PostEatsAllLife, on 13 January 2018 - 10:46 PM, said:

It seems like a nice project in the long run. Some questions:
  • About how long do you think it would take to complete once it is started?
  • Would it split the whole kill bonus between everyone? Or would it give every participant a % of the initial kill bonus?
    • so say a kill bonus is 100 (just for easy numbers) would it give 100 to the rangers in ranging? 100 in a/d, 100 magic, etc. etc. Or would it be like 20 to a ranger, 20 to a mage, 20 to attackers and defenders?
    • I feel it'd be better to give everyone something complete , rather than a portion of the KB, as they all put in a full effort.
  • Also, how will the exp system work for everyone after this? With it all using a single system, will it all somehow use the same kill bonus? So that everything just gives a higher kill bonus? Or will it be set for things, and regular mobs don't get a higher?
Just some simple question I have to consider in this, but I say go for it!

~Eats
First of all, the amount of the Kill Bonus will have to be calculated differently because the current formula takes into account the killers skills vs killed skills and then adds bonus from Rationality. A new formula will have to be considered since now it's trying to account for a group of players, and probably needs to be more CL based as well. Of course that means the the amount of experience available will be TBD.

As for the splitting up, to be fairer I think that the calculated Kill Bonus then should be split up % wise based on each players damage (for Attack type bonus) or the number of hits taken (for Defense type bonus)

View PostKaddy, on 14 January 2018 - 04:36 AM, said:

I think this is a great idea.

I think some improvement to the boss exp would be required, sometimes you kill a very hard boss and get so little exp. The exp boost of bosses would encourage for more people to join hard bosses too!

While I think this is a good topic, I honestly believe that new items/spawns/exp curve should be considered and being worked on first.

-Kaddy
A player thats interested in changing the exp curve already has the formula used to calculate the exp chart to play with to try different things. We'll have to see what comes from that.

#6 Learner

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Posted 15 January 2018 - 09:38 AM

Another addition to this to be considered is: Do we want to give a little extra experience to the person that did the final damage that killed it when a group helped kill it? This experience would NOT come from experience that is being divided up.

Still thinking about the best way to determine how much experience is available to be handed out as a Bonus. The current system looks at your Attack vs it's defense as a big factor in the exp, and then takes other things into account, such as Rationality. This doesn't work well for group division, so maybe look at the groups Avg CL vs the mobs CL instead?

#7 AlddrA

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Posted 15 January 2018 - 12:23 PM

Since what the others do is mostly attack the boss, they should get attack bonus, and yes the player that actually kills, should get a bigger bonus experience imo.

#8 Zian

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Posted 15 January 2018 - 07:26 PM

I think the experience points should be split evenly.

#9 CoduX

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Posted 15 January 2018 - 08:48 PM

I vote absolutely! Would be a great addition Posted Image

View PostLearner, on 15 January 2018 - 09:38 AM, said:

Do we want to give a little extra experience to the person that did the final damage that killed it when a group helped kill it?

I agree with this also. A little extra a/d exp isn't going to hurt anybody with how the current exp curve goes.

#10 WaterBottle

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Posted 16 January 2018 - 09:29 AM

I agree the overall system needs to be changed.

One case I was wondering about (that may impact how we give exp) is what would happen in the situation where there are 2 players attacking a boss or some higher level mob, and one player didn't get a hit in before the kill? In terms of mechanics, the player did provide a def penalty by existing but didn't get hits in.

And this is more of a question for everyone... I would want some base exp of participating and then the percentage based on damage.

#11 Learner

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Posted 16 January 2018 - 09:41 AM

View PostWaterBottle, on 16 January 2018 - 09:29 AM, said:

I agree the overall system needs to be changed.

One case I was wondering about (that may impact how we give exp) is what would happen in the situation where there are 2 players attacking a boss or some higher level mob, and one player didn't get a hit in before the kill? In terms of mechanics, the player did provide a def penalty by existing but didn't get hits in.

And this is more of a question for everyone... I would want some base exp of participating and then the percentage based on damage.
Even if a player doesn't get a hit in, if hits were aimed at them the attack(s) still get counted towards Def experience. My proposed change the Att exp is based on the % of damage dealt and Def is based on the % of attacks taken or attempted (the amount of damage taken is not a factor).

#12 WaterBottle

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Posted 16 January 2018 - 10:03 AM

View PostLearner, on 16 January 2018 - 09:41 AM, said:

View PostWaterBottle, on 16 January 2018 - 09:29 AM, said:

I agree the overall system needs to be changed.

One case I was wondering about (that may impact how we give exp) is what would happen in the situation where there are 2 players attacking a boss or some higher level mob, and one player didn't get a hit in before the kill? In terms of mechanics, the player did provide a def penalty by existing but didn't get hits in.

And this is more of a question for everyone... I would want some base exp of participating and then the percentage based on damage.
Even if a player doesn't get a hit in, if hits were aimed at them the attack(s) still get counted towards Def experience. My proposed change the Att exp is based on the % of damage dealt and Def is based on the % of attacks taken or attempted (the amount of damage taken is not a factor).

Fair. After more thought, my question is a case that wouldn't be affected that much with this change as people today have a decision of not assisting with a boss because he/she won't hit and isn't the tank so no exp and would rather do somewhere else because the shared drop isn't worth it. And the main driving point for the changes are for tanks, rangers, mages to begin with.

So if one were to deal the killing blow with range or magic and they didn't melee at all, would the kill bonus be given as range exp or magic exp as well?

#13 Learner

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Posted 16 January 2018 - 10:07 AM

View PostWaterBottle, on 16 January 2018 - 10:03 AM, said:

View PostLearner, on 16 January 2018 - 09:41 AM, said:

View PostWaterBottle, on 16 January 2018 - 09:29 AM, said:

I agree the overall system needs to be changed.

One case I was wondering about (that may impact how we give exp) is what would happen in the situation where there are 2 players attacking a boss or some higher level mob, and one player didn't get a hit in before the kill? In terms of mechanics, the player did provide a def penalty by existing but didn't get hits in.

And this is more of a question for everyone... I would want some base exp of participating and then the percentage based on damage.
Even if a player doesn't get a hit in, if hits were aimed at them the attack(s) still get counted towards Def experience. My proposed change the Att exp is based on the % of damage dealt and Def is based on the % of attacks taken or attempted (the amount of damage taken is not a factor).

Fair. After more thought, my question is a case that wouldn't be affected that much with this change as people today have a decision of not assisting with a boss because he/she won't hit and isn't the tank so no exp and would rather do somewhere else because the shared drop isn't worth it. And the main driving point for the changes are for tanks, rangers, mages to begin with.

So if one were to deal the killing blow with range or magic and they didn't melee at all, would the kill bonus be given as range exp or magic exp as well?
I spelled out already how the Attack portion of the bonus get split up when dealing with Rangers & Mages that did damage. If we add an additional bonus for the person that deals the killing attack it would be dealt with in the same way and added to the exp being given to ranging/magic.

#14 WaterBottle

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Posted 16 January 2018 - 10:30 AM

That is my bad; I see points 4-6 now in the initial post in that light. Need more coffee and better eyes than the 4 I have.

#15 Learner

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Posted 16 January 2018 - 10:35 AM

View PostWaterBottle, on 16 January 2018 - 10:30 AM, said:

That is my bad; I see points 4-6 now in the initial post in that light. Need more coffee and better eyes than the 4 I have.
No problem :D

#16 Kaddy

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Posted 17 January 2018 - 04:25 AM

Rather than final blow, I’d say the bag-taker should have more exp plus the bonus little extra exp. Since the % of the total damage dealt will be the highest of bag-taker, should be also rewarded again for the most damage imo.

Btw, the exp amounts that we are talking really will differ my thoughts, if they are going to be like 2-3k exp after sharing, then give them to whatever you want.

But personally, something like Enola should be giving AT LEAST 1 MILLION EXP, that’s at least.

#17 Learner

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Posted 17 January 2018 - 04:44 AM

Keep in mind we can also rethink the logic as to who the bag taker is, but that should be it's own thread. Currently that is chosen only from players actively fighting the mob and only looks at the damage they did since they started this last time. If you flee or get killed it resets back to 0. Thats means the person that did the most damage may not get the bag even if they are on the mob now. Plus if you did a bunch of ranging or magic damage that is never considered in the EL logic currently in use.

Thread started at https://www.other-li...o-gets-the-bag/

#18 Learner

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Posted 09 March 2018 - 07:24 PM

No new comments and feedback? I'd have thought there would have need many more then these by more people.

#19 Ridy

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Posted 02 July 2018 - 11:10 PM

This sounds very good improvement in kill bonus exp for bosses. Also a bit more exp bonus kill in multi combat for normal mobs would be great.

(1) If exp getting distributed evenly to all the players (including archers/mage) should be the person who do most damage gets more exp bonus, tho I wonder what will the healer mage will get who does help tank.

(2) If exp distributed on basis of individual basis, then it should be on the ratio of damage dealt for melee / archer / mage or whatever build.

#20 DueCE

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Posted 11 July 2018 - 01:05 PM

The proposed change is a great use of the KillPoints system and is especially beneficial for mages/Rangers.  Seems like a step in the right direction in balancing combat skills.

What sort of discussion is needed in order to get this onto the test server?




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