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Possible change to Kill Bonus?


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#21 Learner

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Posted 11 July 2018 - 01:09 PM

 DueCE, on 11 July 2018 - 01:05 PM, said:

The proposed change is a great use of the KillPoints system and is especially beneficial for mages/Rangers.  Seems like a step in the right direction.  

What sort of discussion is needed in order to get this onto the test server?
It's also a question of Priority and if people understand as well as being interested. There is a side of there are other reasonable adjustment which may help?

I do think all the data needed is being gathered now due to updates made to DamageTracker in the last several months. So it's mostly about adding the code to split up the A & D bonuses to A/D/R/M with a side of thinking more about how the total bonus is calculated (since the old math can't apply for a group easily)

P.S. I do NOT expect this to help healers, thats a much more complicated issue at this time without a Party System . Even then have to watch for possible abuses.

#22 ohmygod

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Posted 16 July 2018 - 04:26 AM

Question:

I create a build that has no dexterity/might (well 4), high reaction/toughness, decent rationality, etherallity and matter (the required number of nex to wear plate and carry enough hold my ess and pots with the help of my packs.).

I have enough dodge due to my def+reaction and toughness to "tank/hold" a high level mob kinda easily(?) (An Mchim/rabid fluffy lets say without dying in the first few landed blows at least) and can restore my health as required with magic and pots. however, when not in a team situation I cant hit those mobs due to no dex so need to harm/LD/poison them to death, all the while draining their mana to replenish mine to a certain point depending on their available mana pool of course or burning through my potions.

The mob eventually dies due to a combination of harm/ld/poison spells and a no lucky hits.

What skills xp will i get if i dissed?

What skills xp will i get if i didnt have to diss?

EDITED:

Quote

3. Players that did any Melee Damage at all get their share as Attack exp, even if they also did Ranging or Magic damage as well.

Never mind, I reread the starter post.

Considering the number of spells cast in this situation I think it would be sucky to get the kill bonus only as attack xp just because i got one "lucky" hit in. That said without knowledge of the coding required to split this between attack skill and magic skill.

Also how does Mirror damage get recorded?

#23 Learner

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Posted 16 July 2018 - 06:17 AM

You do still get the Magic exp for any spells that are caste as you normally do as well as normal Ranging exp as well. In the situation you describe you might still get lucky and get a crit hit in or not. That would end up being a deciding factor of the Attack Bonus ends up going to Melee or Magic since the system know what categories caused damage, but not now much damage from each category nor does the mobs healing know how to be applied across different categories or different timings from those.

If you got  a lucky hit in that caused damage, therm it would see you as Melee Attack + Magic. If you got no Crit Hits that did any damage, it would see all the damage you dealt as Magic only.

The decision if you get bonus going towards Attack vs Magic is simply based on if any Melee attacks caused damage, not if you were in Melee or not. This is a compromise between the amount of data having to be tracked against all players and mobs for every round of Melee, Ranging, Magic, and Healing since the Damage Tracker data is also used to gather information for the Event Tracker anytime a mob or player dies all players & mobs are having this information processed at all times.

Mirrored attacks are are considered Melee attacks from themselves since at the time damage is being applied after being mirrored both the attacker & defender are the same person. Since the damage is self inflicted, thats what already prevents you from getting A/D exp from a mirrored attack. The proposed change would have to ignore self inflicted damage of any type to avoid possible abuses from Mirror, mushroom poisoning, and anything else that might come up in the future.

Possibly in the future we'll be able to better evaluate the amount of data and time required to add another level of detail based on each source type.

#24 Jandor

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Posted 27 July 2018 - 01:16 PM

Definitely a step in the right direction.

#25 ohmygod

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Posted 04 September 2018 - 03:35 AM

Just thought i would post some observations since I have been training magic in OL , and even recently solo cleared a dchim and above horde filled map with just spells because i could  Posted Image

I note:
1. Using melee skills is a lot quicker to clear maps of mobs and it also earns you shit loads more xp + bonus xp than if you clear same map/mobs mainly using spells (with no current bonus xp awarded for the kill).
2. Due to the need to stay out of direct combat, or risk getting owned, loot bags are lost in the horde when the mob wanders off to die after being poisoned, so a free tip, dont practice magic if you are after the lootz when clearing hordes. (yes invis spell to retrieve bags if desperate for the lootz,but cost to gain?)
3. Dont need high Magic skill level to kill high(ish) level mobs, although it helps to speed things along. eg i can kill at 55+ magic with a few spell casts and a lot of patience, mobs an 85+ melee would have trouble dealing with.
4. Melee can only do damage on one mob at a time, poison works independently on as many mobs as you can tag with it.
5 Melee - more time in combat the more(?) damage inflicted = potentially more risk of dying when fighting mobs above their CL, Magic damage (poison) ticks regardless of if  mob is in combat or not, = cast and get out of combat quick = potentially caster has less risk of dying to a mob above their CL. (unless they are stupid)

From my observations in  game, I have a few comments to make  about bonus xp and magic.

I like the idea of a bonus xp for a magic damage kill..... however, I think magic bonus for a mob kill should only apply if player in sight of the  mob when it dies, if this is not agreeable then, magic  xp bonus needs to be a small fraction of what a similar level solo melee player would get for the same kill/mob due to the potentially low risk incurred for the magic kill. I say that because as mentioned, i have cleared maps with magic spells and being in direct combat for longer than necessary is bad and should be avoided at all costs, and i say it again, unless you are stupid of course, Flee diss/tele is a magic users friend.

Hmmmmm, How might i ab"use" the magic bonus system if no thought is put into how the bonus xp is awarded?
Everyone knows that when changing maps there is a short delay for when a mob will attack. That said, I have found that I can  flag hop between maps cast poison spell at nearest mob/s, flag out again rinse and repeat for as long as i have ess/potions/time, With no real risk other than spilling my beer when a mob covers the exit flag and the no attack time period is up.

After poisoning as many as possible, if i dont need to be on the same map or in close proximity when they die, then all i need to do is sit back and wait for them to reach zero health bar in safety of a clear map (zero health due to poison damage or because someone else finished it off)..  Tick tick tick boooom bonus magic xp !!!!

*yes reapplying poison spell takes time in order to damage/kill each mob on the map, but is not too hard and works especially best when boss/es hangs around flags and you have nothing better to do with your life......

The potential for ab"use" of bonus  xp when working in a team still needs further investigating and I have some thoughts about how i could make this a nice xp earner for leveling magic in this scenario as well.

my 2 cents



omg

#26 Learner

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Posted 04 September 2018 - 04:46 AM

To combine some of your comments so others can think about it ... the method of map hopping + Poisoning also gives up the mob drops most of the time. So you might be trading some good drops for the xp unless you manage to clear enough before bags start poofing.?

Alternatively, doing an attack type spell like Poison maybe should remove map hop immunity for better balance?

#27 ohmygod

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Posted 04 September 2018 - 07:39 AM

Quote

Alternatively, doing an attack type spell like Poison maybe should remove map hop immunity for better balance?
I have mentioned that flee/diss/disstele is a magic users friend. Instant death possibly if map hop immunity is removed with offensive spell cast especially in a solo situation as the mob will lock player into melee combat and allow the others to join in before you can blink. The other downside i can see might be that the solo magic user never gets the magic xp they want because they have melee hit the mob and the server awards att xp instead.

I do also envision this would not be so bad in a team situation as melee players will most likely have most mobs locked in combat at the flag and magic user  can poison at will with little risk of server converting it to att xp. My question though, is do we have enough players to turn all game play into team play?

Personally, as i tend to solo play a lot, I like the map hop immunity and I would prefer to see the player lose the bonus xp if not in same map when the mob died, rather than not being able to deal real damage and contribute to the clearing of the map at the very start when mobs are thickest even if not in a team. That is just me though...

As to your first comment about trading of bag for xp, you dont need to flag hop to lose the bag, you can be in the middle of the map and the same thing can happen when the mob walks back into the thinned but hovering horde ball. Gatherer does not work if not in melee combat with the mob when it dies. In this case the trade off is more that you dont have to remain in melee combat to kill the mob but you could lose the bag. Giving trade off xp for losing bag because player left the map to sit at storage might be overkill? but hey im easy, really, xp is xp and i like the green numbers that float above my characters head and can go either way with this.

#28 Learner

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Posted 04 September 2018 - 08:59 AM

Part of the reason that I feel the KillBonus should be distributed to players not on the map but still logged in has to do with the walk back from UW and I feel that should apply to all skills equally.




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