Jump to content

  •  

Perk - Lucky Hitter


  • Please log in to reply
30 replies to this topic

#1 Learner

Learner

    God

  • Administrators
  • 2569 posts

Posted 27 March 2018 - 04:23 AM

Lucky hitter: (cannot combine with lucky dodger)
7% Lucky hit   - 1pp -   +7% chance to hit,   -5% chance to dodge, regardless of combat stats
14% Lucky hit - 1pp - +14% chance to hit, -10% chance to dodge, regardless of combat stats
21% Lucky hit - 1pp - +21% chance to hit, -10% chance to dodge, regardless of combat stats

Changes from initial proposal are in Level 3:
25% reduce to 21% to be consistent in progression
-10% put back in since an increasing negative shouldn't vanish just because you maxed it out.

An alternative that could be -15% to dodge for Level 3 if consistent progressions is deemed best.

Concerns/Issues:
Combat doesn't calculate a % chance to hit. It calculates a number for the attacker and another for the defender with randomness included and sees which is higher. A simpler solution would be for it to add to a players Attack or Accuracy while subtracting from their Defense or Blocking.

Even switching to the Sigmoid Combat being tested doesn't resolve this, since the chances there are non-linear.

Possible values maybe:
+2 & -1
+4 & -2
+6 & -2 (or -3)

see also related discussions in https://www.other-li...s-lucky-dodger/

... discuss

#2 WaterBottle

WaterBottle

    Member

  • Full Member
  • PipPip
  • 172 posts

Posted 27 March 2018 - 09:03 AM

So I don't mind looking dumb for the sake of progress. This applies to both topics since both have the same stat being affected...but just for my own understanding so I can actually think about this correctly as there are probably some nuances:

What is the difference between the attack skill and the accuracy stat in #arm?

Is it incorrect to think of "chance to dodge" as the defense skill and/or stat that shows up in #arm? In my mind, defense reduces the chance to get hit, which also could mean chance to dodge from a technicality standpoint...

#3 Learner

Learner

    God

  • Administrators
  • 2569 posts

Posted 27 March 2018 - 09:58 AM

View PostWaterBottle, on 27 March 2018 - 09:03 AM, said:

So I don't mind looking dumb for the sake of progress. This applies to both topics since both have the same stat being affected...but just for my own understanding so I can actually think about this correctly as there are probably some nuances:

What is the difference between the attack skill and the accuracy stat in #arm?

Is it incorrect to think of "chance to dodge" as the defense skill and/or stat that shows up in #arm? In my mind, defense reduces the chance to get hit, which also could mean chance to dodge from a technicality standpoint...
In the current combat formula, Attack Skill & Accuracy both have equivalent effect, the difference is the source. Under the Sigmoid system being tested, they could have different strength multipliers depending on how it is fine tuned.

Similarly, the Defense Skill and the confusingly named Defense in #arm are similar as well in how they get handled in both systems.

Where we decide to apply it is more related to how we want to think of it, specially when we get someone to work on the new sigmoid combat for tuning again since that system helps address issues when attacker and defender are farther apart in skills & stats and is more tunable without re-coding in the server.

In my mind, I personally think those Perks would be bore like to be though of as enhancing your skill while fighting WITHOUT affecting the exp calculation.

#4 butler

butler

    Advanced Member

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 1424 posts
  • LocationScotland

Posted 27 March 2018 - 01:06 PM

View PostWaterBottle, on 27 March 2018 - 09:03 AM, said:

<snip>
Is it incorrect to think of "chance to dodge" as the defense skill and/or stat that shows up in #arm? In my mind, defense reduces the chance to get hit, which also could mean chance to dodge from a technicality standpoint...

Would like to be pedantic that defense is both the ability to dodge and block an attack, and in the cross attributes is shown as such with reaction versus toughness, and i reckon if anything they should be dealt differently in #arm as well as defense level being dealt with as a combination, since with the ability to affect character attack speeds and walking, reaction kind of naturally points to a more nimble character, as dexterity does in attack, and toughness to a slower, more substantial character, as might does in the attack direction. I'd argue in defense the difference is more important in defining as one means avoidance of damage and thus, no damage, whilst the other is the absorption of damage, thus mitigating damage dealt, compared to speed of dealing damage and chance of dealing more in attack (nuanced, very slightly, in terms of scale, in my opinion).

Slightly off topic but i think it's relevant enough to leave here since it's at it's core dealing with damage dealing/taking system

#5 WaterBottle

WaterBottle

    Member

  • Full Member
  • PipPip
  • 172 posts

Posted 28 March 2018 - 08:56 AM

With some coffee in my system, from the posts thus far I am inferring that "chance to dodge" is already calculated today. If that is the case, then that part of the topic is for my own understanding which I don't want to derail the discussion of the perk itself. :P

#6 Learner

Learner

    God

  • Administrators
  • 2569 posts

Posted 28 March 2018 - 09:05 AM

View PostWaterBottle, on 28 March 2018 - 08:56 AM, said:

With some coffee in my system, from the posts thus far I am inferring that "chance to dodge" is already calculated today. If that is the case, then that part of the topic is for my own understanding which I don't want to derail the discussion of the perk itself. Posted Image
Neither chance to hit or chance to dodge are calculated. dodging is a subtractor against the calculated to hit number. These issues with chance hit/dodge affects bot Lucky Hitter & Lucky Dodger.

#7 ohmygod

ohmygod

    Member

  • Full Member
  • PipPip
  • 421 posts
  • Locationaustralia

Posted 03 April 2018 - 04:08 AM

Deleted... reread the topic

#8 Learner

Learner

    God

  • Administrators
  • 2569 posts

Posted 03 April 2018 - 04:21 AM

Ther is always a % chance to hit & a similar % chance to miss. I will not allow Lucky Hitter or Dodger affect those. What the intent of the Perks is try to improve your chances to hit or dodge in your favor within that range. That is part of the reason why saying it's a specific % increase gets so complicated, specially with Sigmoid since it isn't a straight linear chance to begin with.

#9 ohmygod

ohmygod

    Member

  • Full Member
  • PipPip
  • 421 posts
  • Locationaustralia

Posted 03 April 2018 - 04:30 AM

ok cool

#10 ebattleon

ebattleon

    Member

  • Full Member
  • PipPip
  • 138 posts

Posted 03 April 2018 - 05:53 AM

Keep it Simple Stupid is always best
so...
+2 & -1
+4 & -2
+6 & -3

#11 CoduX

CoduX

    Advanced Member

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 1134 posts
  • LocationLand Down Under

Posted 03 April 2018 - 09:57 PM

I would like to see if possible

+3 & -1
+6 & -2
+9 & -3

#12 SimAnt

SimAnt

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 96 posts

Posted 04 April 2018 - 06:51 AM

FYI what was intended from perk description was that Crit hit chance increased, and crit dodge chance decreased.

#13 Learner

Learner

    God

  • Administrators
  • 2569 posts

Posted 04 April 2018 - 07:24 AM

View PostSimAnt, on 04 April 2018 - 06:51 AM, said:

FYI what was intended from perk description was that Crit hit chance increased, and crit dodge chance decreased.
Crit Dodge? First time I heard of any stat like that.

#14 SimAnt

SimAnt

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 96 posts

Posted 04 April 2018 - 08:43 PM

View PostLearner, on 04 April 2018 - 07:24 AM, said:

View PostSimAnt, on 04 April 2018 - 06:51 AM, said:

FYI what was intended from perk description was that Crit hit chance increased, and crit dodge chance decreased.
Crit Dodge? First time I heard of any stat like that.
meh, chance of other party crit hitting you. lowers that.

#15 Learner

Learner

    God

  • Administrators
  • 2569 posts

Posted 05 April 2018 - 05:37 AM

Part if the entire point of a Crit Hit is the fact that NOTHING can block the hit. Yes, how much damage you do is still affected by other things but adding the concept of a CritDodge goes total against the definition & concept of a CritHit.

#16 ohmygod

ohmygod

    Member

  • Full Member
  • PipPip
  • 421 posts
  • Locationaustralia

Posted 05 April 2018 - 07:29 AM

What is difference between dodge and defense? and is dodge a natural stat or another word for reaction?

#17 Learner

Learner

    God

  • Administrators
  • 2569 posts

Posted 05 April 2018 - 07:42 AM

The ability to Dodge is how Reaction is applied as part of the normal Combat ToHit. Defense is two different things, one is your defense skill, the other is the ability of a weapon or armor to block a hit. #arm shows the amount of defense from weapons/armor.

#18 ohmygod

ohmygod

    Member

  • Full Member
  • PipPip
  • 421 posts
  • Locationaustralia

Posted 05 April 2018 - 08:13 AM

So -10 dodge is really -10 reaction? or am i way off?

#19 CoduX

CoduX

    Advanced Member

  • Full Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 1134 posts
  • LocationLand Down Under

Posted 05 April 2018 - 09:44 AM

View Postohmygod, on 05 April 2018 - 08:13 AM, said:

So -10 dodge is really -10 reaction? or am i way off?
In theory, yes
Reaction = your chance to dodge
So, reaction = dodge

#20 ohmygod

ohmygod

    Member

  • Full Member
  • PipPip
  • 421 posts
  • Locationaustralia

Posted 05 April 2018 - 05:30 PM

I reread the first post, it is -10% not -10

So what do these numbers mean
+2 & -1
+4 & -2
+6 & -2 (or -3)

+ to hit & - to reaction/dodge?




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users