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Treaty on PK During invasions


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#1 SimAnt

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Posted 01 April 2018 - 12:42 PM

Hello good people of Other-Life,

I am writing to you to put into words what I believe the community has already decided regarding player killing during invasions.

1. Players will work for the common goal of killing monsters in PK maps when they are invaded. Attacking other players is not allowed at all when the map is invaded, or just recently cleared within an hour.
a. There is acceptable room for misclicks on players. Discuss.
2. Violations of part 1 by a individual player or group(s) of players will void the individual or group(s) from having part 1 of this treaty in effect until reparations have been made as agreed to by the party that attacked and the party that was attacked. If the attacking party is associated with a guild or is treated as part of that guild, then the guild will also be subject to the same treatment as the individual. If the player is unwilling or unable to make reparations, the guild may either kick the offending player or make amends as a group to restore their treaty rights.

Discuss and ratify the language in this treaty.

#2 CoduX

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Posted 01 April 2018 - 08:01 PM

April fools

#3 ohmygod

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Posted 02 April 2018 - 09:28 AM

Serious, or joke?

Is your guild a PK guild or what? Why not extend truce to weekdays for the harvesters/a/d trainers in the same guilds you want to make/discuss weekend treaty with...considering that you have the only active PKer in the game in your guild..I am pretty sure they would like that, I know I would

"Don't go PK maps if you want to get PKed" is the mantra that is spouted by your guild leaders/members whenever Deuce PKs someone in a "PK" map any other day..., and we are only talking about an individual player and their personal play style here and if this post has come about because of my actions on the weekend, to be honest, your whole guild is not on my "personal" PK list and never has been, as you and others in your guild should know from previous discussions when i declared that i would be attacking everyone in your guild because of Deuces actions, I changed my personal PK stance on that based on discussions I had with the cool individual members of your "PK" ? guild..

Also while I am typing, when a non-PK guild (yes I believe 42 to be PvE guild, hence my decision to leave guild on the weekend) retaliates by placing a ban on sales because of an 'individual players' "PK" actions, during week days, you turn into a bag jumping Guild to get your way... during an invasion weekend I might add,...and yes your guild did get its way no matter how you look at it....how is this not seen as hypocritical by others in the player "community" amazes me ....

Tip from this point forward: If you see me tag-less expect Deuce, Eats or RAT to be my only PK targets even if it is invasion weekend, and yes members of 42 have asked me to return to their guild and I am seriously considering it as they, like you and others, (when you's are not bitching or laughing on channel at the misfortune of others), who focus solely on the PVE aspect of this game, in general, are great, funny, fun, kind and considerate people to play with...

That said, rather than depend on peoples chosen play style to abide by an informal treaty,at all times and any day of week, I personally would like to see PK leave OL for those Players who do truly not enjoy the PK aspect of it, This can perhaps be achieved in a rejigged option similar to guild war settings in OL already(?),. players can turn it on if they so wish, and declare themselves a "PKer"  then any map in OL will be available for PK and other PKers can chase them around all over the place seeking fun, or revenge, til their hearts content. In turn those who enjoy PvE and the many other great aspects of this game can do so in peace.....

If this was done, I would then not have to take my opportunities to do some payback, and that is all this is, during the weekend when the best opportunities for this arise and people on my payback list are drawn to the mobs in the "PK" maps, having fun like the weekday harvester /a.d trainers,,

Believe it or not, but they are currently coded as PK maps even though it is not a week day, Guild truce or no Guild truce..

PS: Deuce drops better than PvE bosses... :) :) :)

Spam, bitch and moan away as your guild leaders/members are so apt at doing when not getting their way....or accept the fact that this will be "my"  personal play style until it is coded/programmed out of the game....

I do not speak for 42 or any of its members, this is my own statement and thoughts as an untagged player who is free to chose their own play style.

omg

#4 butler

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Posted 02 April 2018 - 10:07 AM

The thing is, i regret what I did, and never intended to keep what i got, very quickly returned items and did quite a bit of extra compensation to Abra, who I'm on good terms with. I have no intention to

I find it odd that you, with nothing to do with the entire situation, pick on this.

so the situation was:
  • Bat17 afked in a pvp zone (which is a no no on pretty much every game I've ever played or had fleeting contact with. I've been killed afking in pk. My fault. His fault)
  • He set us as enemies unilaterally, and blacklisted a lot of us who were tanking and helping 42 on bosses they can't kill themselves. Which was odd.
  • We told AlddrA multiple times, which she acknowledged, but never did anything and acted like we never told her when it came up again.
  • AlddrA actively antagonised us by "Hand that feeds you" and various other rather trite stuff
  • I warned them on the day, i warned them at the time, and gave them 5 minutes, whilst they came in to serp bosses in a map we'd been clearing for an hour without them.
  • It was more to make a point to not declare war on other guilds like us.
Was a mistake, which i very quickly rectified. There's a gulf in terms of the action taking in the day afterwards. There was no agreements, there were warnings. The fact nobody knew what happened after you attacked us helping your guild, in your guild and in ours, is testament to that.

I don't fuck around with guilds that have members who have actively harassed and threatened me, so grow up.

How old are you guys for christs sake. Some of you a pensioners...

#5 CoduX

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Posted 03 April 2018 - 02:05 AM

Both of you have fair points. But in reality, a PK map is called a PK map for a reason. If you go to a PK map, you are having the risk to meet somebody and potentially kill them, be killed or ignore them, there is no middle ground.
If you complain about dying on a PK map due to PK, tough love, maybe you'll be more careful next time.

Although in saying that, there are ridiculous bosses and mobs on weekends like enola/giga/RPF/GM and most recently cockatrice, and while PK'ing while trying to clear these mobs & bosses is completely legal, it is heavily frowned upon and really gives you no favours.

In all honestly, players can do whatever they wish as long as it doesn't break any rules, but must be prepared for repercussions for his/her actions.

CoduX

#6 ohmygod

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Posted 03 April 2018 - 03:19 AM

Quote

I find it odd that you, with nothing to do with the entire situation, pick on this.

9+ paragraphs in my post and all you see and respond to is the one that does not even mention you by name? I used it to give an example of the hypocrisy in game purely because of the way it is coded at present. It allows the conflict to occur and split the small player base into factions and does not actively foster in its old borrowed code, the "team work" that is required to compete against the 99.999% PvE game that OL has developed into naturally through its player base and updates over the years.

Also while i am chatting with you like the adult I hope you are butler, did I not say in channel over the weekend that you did well to return the bag and offer compensation, or something to that effect? I take it your pride in your name and character play style might have something to do with your response and how you wrote it, Take pride in how the player community see's you. Don't stop being you butler. I don't ask you to be anybody else.

My main point was, we can make all the rules we want but some nutter (like myself perhaps) will do what the game allows players to do, eg. ruin your fun on a whim.

If it is a truly community rule, then lets vote and make the game code itself not allow PK against PvE players at all times. not just on the weekends. If Deuce or the other wanna be PKers want to PK then man up and be prepared to be PKed at all times and on all maps, and leave the PvEers to PvE in peace.

#7 ebattleon

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Posted 03 April 2018 - 05:48 AM

LoL...Pk them all and let god sort them out!
OMG Play however you want too man.
Butler Play however you want...I would suggest you leave the "hand that feeds" alone
42 should take note... constantly making peace with "warlike man" or guild really does not make sense cause the PK you on a whim.
and Duece HAHAHAHAHA

#8 Aine

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Posted 03 April 2018 - 07:31 AM

I love to PK!  Im horrible at it and never win, but I love it.  I enjoy sparring and the adrenaline rush from everyone casting spells and attacking each other!! I would be heartbroken if it was removed from this game. :(
  I also love the teamwork and challenge of hard bosses and mobs, as do most of us.  It is typically a really fun time when ppl of all levels can come into TD and help kill Giganta or other Uber bosses. We all have fun, bitch about drops and give Learner shit,  ITS GREAT!!  hehe

Being a member of the community that is actually active and plays on a pretty regular basis; that doesnt just pop on once in awhile or randomly reply to a forum post just to be hurtful.   I have found that Pk during invasions is seriously frowned upon by the community and for months now has not been an issue.  I also see this play method continuing among a majority of the community. I know that is all Simant is trying to make public.  

  I do agree that everyone has their own personal play style and should play the game however they like.
OMG, if you want to PK anytime or anywhere..during invasions whenever..so be it :). Great!! Sounds Good! Enjoy your play style!
  Everyone who plays this game knows when Duece is online there is a chance he might be lurking, But it is rare that he will attack during an invasion.  That is his play style and thats what he enjoys :) we all accept this and either love him or dont. :)

This is a game, it a place for people to come and enjoy themselves. There are plenty of maps and monsters and harvestables for everyone............

Regardless of invasions.. if you know there are people who pk online, be careful.. plain and simple.  If you dont want the risk, then dont go on the map..again plain and simple.  


All for now, have to go to work :/

#9 Kaddy

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Posted 03 April 2018 - 08:28 AM

What’s this all about?

Someone complained about being killed in PK? lol?

In the first time I died in PK, I bitched. Then realized it is stupid. You go to PK, people may attack you. Punish them if you can, kill them back if you can, serp them in PK if you can, but don’t fucking cry.

#10 ohmygod

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Posted 03 April 2018 - 08:39 AM

I broke a "community rule" and pked someone in a pk map on a weekend, because that is the only time I see them in one. I didn't get the killing blow so didn't get my pretty channel @6 message that i wanted. will try again next weekend.

@Ainie so why were you the first and only one to be asking for his stuff back?, Have fun at work.

#11 butler

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Posted 03 April 2018 - 02:48 PM

View Postebattleon, on 03 April 2018 - 05:48 AM, said:

<snip>
Butler Play however you want...I would suggest you leave the "hand that feeds" alone
<snip>
Nah, that message from ald pissed me off because it completely reaffirmed the message that some of 42 still believe we rely on them for resources, and the detachment from what's actually happening in the wider game.

It just annoyed me really.

View PostKaddy, on 03 April 2018 - 08:28 AM, said:

What’s this all about?
<snip>

OMG killed DueCE whilst we were clearing a map with his guild (which he had just left), whilst we had them on temp ally so summons wouldn't attack them, and jumped in once we had all pretty much wiped, in a way where we didn't know if he accidentally attacked us with a misclick or anything. Also after we gave assurances to him we wouldn't attack him.

He brought up the bit where Bat17 had set 42 as enemies with us, and i warned, zian, ald, abra, gave them a number of minutes, and they provided me with a lovely to nearly killed zian and get abra's bag, as they had put us as an enemy, which was a slightly silly thing to do. Abra got his bag back plus gc within like 20 minutes, with an apology.

View Postohmygod, on 03 April 2018 - 03:19 AM, said:

<Snip>
9+ paragraphs in my post and all you see and respond to is the one that does not even mention you by name?
Well, it was a very, very clearly aimed at me and that situation so it seemed appropriate. I've also not fully publicly explained that situation. Also a good opportunity to put forward to context and the differences.

View Postohmygod, on 03 April 2018 - 03:19 AM, said:

I used it to give an example of the hypocrisy in game purely because of the way it is coded at present. It allows the conflict to occur and split the small player base into factions <Snip>
Issue with running some as totally PvP and some totally PvE ingame is that maps with PvP spawns tend to have better mobs to train (or should do). I recently played a game where they did this, and it really did make factions, because it very effectively cut the game down the middle. If you were to do something like that, you'd probably have to incentivize the PvP side with an EXP boost, from my experience.

View Postohmygod, on 03 April 2018 - 03:19 AM, said:

Also while i am chatting with you like the adult I hope you are butler, did I not say in channel over the weekend that you did well to return the bag and offer compensation, or something to that effect? I take it your pride in your name and character play style might have something to do with your response and how you wrote it, Take pride in how the player community see's you. Don't stop being you butler. I don't ask you to be anybody else.
I am rather happy with what I've done in this game and for this game. I'd also like to pick apart the bit of the adult comment. As far as i know, you, alddra, zian, bat, etc. are all middle aged or older. I am half the age of most of you, and still in the bit of age where i still do absolutely moronic things because I'm young. What's bothering me currently is the bullheadedness and unwillingness to let things go, to make amends by some of you. You's are definitely not alone, there are plenty of others in the game as well, but I'm saying this. Why are you guys, who are supposedly older and wiser not forgiving or letting go of things go, sometimes for years.

I made a huge fucking mistake with that thing, and i accept that. I made a mistake when i left my char afk in pk. I accepted that. For the former, i was annoyed, but i calmed down, accepted the faults i did, and apologised to the person i had fucked over. For the latter, i accepted the risks, knew the consequences, wasn't even annoyed.

What I'm getting to is, why are some of the younger people like fucking Dragoe the most level headed in game atm.

View Postohmygod, on 03 April 2018 - 03:19 AM, said:

<snip>
If it is a truly community rule, then lets vote and make the game code itself not allow PK against PvE players at all times. not just on the weekends. If Deuce or the other wanna be PKers want to PK then man up and be prepared to be PKed at all times and on all maps, and leave the PvEers to PvE in peace.
See above, and consider the consequences on the design of the game. It's a dramatic change and would require extensive reworking.

It also misses the point of a community rule versus a game's rule, given a community rule is, unsurprisingly, a rule imposed by the community on the community, and not the game, because the community thinks they want it. The equivalent argument is BJing, that's a community rule.

#12 Warlock

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Posted 03 April 2018 - 05:09 PM

View Postbutler, on 03 April 2018 - 02:48 PM, said:

View Postebattleon, on 03 April 2018 - 05:48 AM, said:

<snip>
Butler Play however you want...I would suggest you leave the "hand that feeds" alone
<snip>
Nah, that message from ald pissed me off because it completely reaffirmed the message that some of 42 still believe we rely on them for resources, and the detachment from what's actually happening in the wider game.

It just annoyed me really.

Oh, lol 42 think we rely on them? fuck

It did bug me too, how Alddra was part of our team, and didnt say a word about what was about to happen, even though she knew everything. Just waited for it to happen, then ignored people afterwards

I've warned her before about potential PKers, bagjumpers, the lot

Coulda given a heads up at the least.

I wont personally be attacking OMG if in PK during invasions, unless he attacks guildies while im there, that kinda goes without saying. I prefer the PVE aspect of OL nowadays, big teams invasioning together, i cba for backstabbing during invas

#13 EatsAllLife

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Posted 03 April 2018 - 05:59 PM

Simply, I say no. Kill as you will. Just be cautious at all times in PK. No treaty agreement from me. Especially seeing the responses. lol.

~Eats

#14 SimAnt

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Posted 03 April 2018 - 06:33 PM

View Postohmygod, on 02 April 2018 - 09:28 AM, said:

Serious, or joke?

Is your guild a PK guild or what? Why not extend truce to weekdays for the harvesters/a/d trainers in the same guilds you want to make/discuss weekend treaty with...considering that you have the only active PKer in the game in your guild..I am pretty sure they would like that, I know I would

View Postbutler, on 03 April 2018 - 02:48 PM, said:

What I'm getting to is, why are some of the younger people like fucking Dragoe the most level headed in game atm.

View Postohmygod, on 03 April 2018 - 03:19 AM, said:

<snip>
If it is a truly community rule, then lets vote and make the game code itself not allow PK against PvE players at all times. not just on the weekends. If Deuce or the other wanna be PKers want to PK then man up and be prepared to be PKed at all times and on all maps, and leave the PvEers to PvE in peace.
See above, and consider the consequences on the design of the game. It's a dramatic change and would require extensive reworking.

It also misses the point of a community rule versus a game's rule, given a community rule is, unsurprisingly, a rule imposed by the community on the community, and not the game, because the community thinks they want it. The equivalent argument is BJing, that's a community rule.
At least Butler gets it, lots of people missing the topic. This is not to fight about a particular incident, it is about putting in place a community rule and what happens when its broken. Not a game mechanic. If you guys don't want it in writing, well then you want the alternative of people sniping each other in the back with no process to go through as a community.

#15 ohmygod

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Posted 04 April 2018 - 01:46 AM

Quote

Quote

Posted Imageohmygod, on 03 April 2018 - 07:19 PM, said:

<snip>
If it is a truly community rule, then lets vote and make the game code itself not allow PK against PvE players at all times. not just on the weekends. If Deuce or the other wanna be PKers want to PK then man up and be prepared to be PKed at all times and on all maps, and leave the PvEers to PvE in peace.



See above, and consider the consequences on the design of the game. It's a dramatic change and would require extensive reworking.
What is #frags command?

#16 Bat17

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Posted 04 April 2018 - 10:49 AM

Seems that I was at the start of all this. I did not "Bitch" about being killed, and yes I knew the risk of being PK'ed, though to be fair, this is the only time I have been PK'd since playing the Game.

In most war zones killing a non-combatant is considered a war crime! Looting comes a little further down the list of war crimes.

My reaction was in perfect Role Play, I withdrew my labour from those who told me that they considered it their right to kill me! Setting MVP to enemy had only one effect, to restrict their access somewhat to Bure. Of course they could quit their guild to go shopping the re-join if they really needed stuff from Bure so it was only a minor inconvenience.

I can foresee two paths which this could take, either we can let it go, my choice not to trade with certain players does not have a major impact on the game, or it could escalate and spoil the game. I am not a fighter so this will not be for me to decide but I can see that PK during invasions and disrupting boss kills on non PK maps would just lead to less enjoyment for the majority of players when we have few enough players to start with.

My hope is that a peaceful path can be found.

Bat17

.PS
"This is a game, it a place for people to come and enjoy themselves. There are plenty of maps and monsters and harvestables for everyone."

​The problem occurred because one of those harvestables is only available on a PK map!

Edited by Bat17, 04 April 2018 - 10:53 AM.


#17 butler

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Posted 04 April 2018 - 02:37 PM

View PostBat17, on 04 April 2018 - 10:49 AM, said:

<snip> this is the only time I have been PK'd since playing the Game.
Which is mostly why I and others assumed you had become complacent whilst others still kept that very much as a risk.

View PostBat17, on 04 April 2018 - 10:49 AM, said:

In most war zones killing a non-combatant is considered a war crime! Looting comes a little further down the list of war crimes.
Cool. However, video game. Game design. This world has magic and potions and you can make iron bars by staring at ore with some essence in your hand, with no tools.

View PostBat17, on 04 April 2018 - 10:49 AM, said:

My reaction was in perfect Role Play, I withdrew my labour from those who told me that they considered it their right to kill me!
RP goes a long way when other players in the game don't ascribe to RP... and generally I assumed the killing you afk harvesting was a similar fair to when i got killed afk harvesting. It was more a... you did something dumb, hopefully you learn from this... hopefully...

Also most civilians in war zones don't lie motionless in the middle of a street, they tend to find cover. You know, general self preservation

View PostBat17, on 04 April 2018 - 10:49 AM, said:

Setting MVP to enemy had only one effect, to restrict their access somewhat to Bure. Of course they could quit their guild to go shopping the re-join if they really needed stuff from Bure so it was only a minor inconvenience.
According to your above decision, one player doing something to another player warrants an entire guild to be cast as one. So when we took that entire guild decision and flipped it around, you guys were... surprised... ? It was a minor inconvenience, but wasn't a personal blacklist, as you did your entire guild NPC, and set your entire guild as an enemy, so it was, unsurprisingly taken that we were at war... since, enemies >.>

View PostBat17, on 04 April 2018 - 10:49 AM, said:

<snip>
.PS
"This is a game, it a place for people to come and enjoy themselves. There are plenty of maps and monsters and harvestables for everyone."

​The problem occurred because one of those harvestables is only available on a PK map!
See above, see game design, there are single player RPGs available, or clicker games if you just want to harvest/sit in storage all day. You put resources in dangerous maps to give a control element to the most high end equipment. It's a strategic resource... controlling it could mean preventing enemies from getting higher level equipment, and would also allow players an ability to affect the flow of those items. Theoretically.

Either way, at this point this threads a laugh.

#18 ohmygod

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Posted 04 April 2018 - 03:59 PM

Quote

Either way, at this point this threads a laugh.
True that, Your Guild master wants to PK while more than half its members want to just play in peace


Quote

It did bug me too, how Alddra was part of our team, and didnt say a word about what was about to happen,
[08:43:16] [AlddrA @ 6]: k, Duece here already with bow
[08:43:32] [ohmygod @ 6]: in pk?
[08:43:40] [Warlock @ 6]: yes
[08:43:56] [butler @ 6]: hey omg
[08:43:57] [ohmygod @ 6]: wrong place to be i wqould say
[08:44:05] [Warlock @ 6]: grow some stones
[08:44:10] [Warlock @ 6]: nobody gna attack u
[08:44:13] [Warlock @ 6]: well not me
[08:44:18] [torpe @ 1]: is nc multi combat?
[08:44:19] [Warlock @ 6]: dunno about duece

@Warlock, I hope my public comments/headsup on Chanel 6 makes more sense to you now

#19 butler

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Posted 04 April 2018 - 04:45 PM

The big issue is that was incredibly ambiguous, I'd hardly call it a headsup. You could have been referring to the invasions difficulty in the map, you could have been worried we'd attack you, and tbh, both of those were the most obvious conclusions to draw from that before "hey, I'm going to attack you 'cause I'm a full grown man who hasn't got over being killed a year ago." Half of us didn't even know this shit, very obviously, from the confusion and shit storm it caused afterwards.

I just...

*head hits desk*

I'm just going to try and avoid this thread anymore... bloody hell...

#20 ohmygod

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Posted 05 April 2018 - 02:27 AM

Yes stick to hitting your head on the desk. It suits you




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