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Perk - Batch Mixer


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#1 Learner

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Posted 06 April 2018 - 06:12 AM

Batch Mixer
(can make as many as you have food for up until the # of copies of level)
(note 2: this may be a game feature in the future instead)

Concerns/Issues
What this means & how it's defined needs to be clarified. There is also the Note about maybe making it a game feature instead. For example, how is this different from MixAll? What negatives does it have? Conflicts?

Discuss ....

#2 WaterBottle

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Posted 06 April 2018 - 07:58 AM

(just my initial train of thought from when it was first proposed; am not saying it should be what I am about to say)

I interpreted as how the perk levels were originally proposed: You can mix up to a certain number of copies simultaneously per mix. In other words, it speeds up mixing.

I then started making assumptions like when you MixAll and can make X items per tick (for lack of a better word), it performs the mixing of X items until food level is zero/negative just as current game mechanic.

From there my initial concerns were related to Day of Joule and the fact that people with max level of perk could machine gun out like 1M FEs in a day in the original proposal. But if the EFE chance is based each tick of mixing, then EFEs or any rare mix chance wouldn't increase; ultimately just the amount one can mix per tick changes. I think it'd be a bit much if the original proposal was: mix 10 at once, and each singular item has a chance of creating a rare.

Maybe this was implicitly included in the perk, but I assumed that yes you could make say 10 items per mix, but you could crit fail and lose all of those items. If that's a bit too harsh (and some explicit negative needed with the perk), then maybe incorporate some chance of mass crit failing

tldr; time saver for needing to mix a mass quantity of items but it's an all or nothing situation (make all, fail all, crit fall all) and chance for rare does not inherently increase

#3 PandemiC

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Posted 19 April 2018 - 08:31 AM

I was not around for the discussion of this perk but i'd like to add my two bits as a mixer here.

This does not help with mixing at all in my eyes. You are still restricted by cooldown, and the over-the-top food requirements for certain items, such as rings. Perhaps that's another issue that should be addressed at the same time. I'm happy to revise, with some input from other mixers, all food requirements into a list to go live for testing with this perk.

Nevertheless, If I were mixing lower items like FE, I would not want this perk either if that means restricting the 'rares' to each tick, rather than actual quantity as that then makes Artificier pointless . Unless as Waterbottle says, you incorporate some kind of 'mass crit failing' explicit negative to the perk instead.

Other than FE, silver and gold rings, and vials I don't actually make anything that uses anything less than 8 food. That makes only perk level #1 useful, and nothing else. I can't make more than 8 HE (15 with much nomz) before I need to eat more. It'd be a waste of a perk point to take it.

I'd like to see this perk revised completely before implemented on test or to include some kind of benefit towards either cooldowns or food requirements also instead of having to choose 'all cooldowns' (i.e. another perk), and Much nomz wow (yet another perk for only +80 food), that's if we are not addressing food requirements directly. For example; anything requiring more than 10 food is halved (making diss rings ~18 food each, and semi-bareable), or all food cooldowns are halved at level 3. (Would have to distinguish PoF/other items as food).
.

#4 WaterBottle

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Posted 19 April 2018 - 07:14 PM

I am very sleep deprived due to work/classes so I will only say more objective statements until I am more rested, but I did want to keep the ball rolling.

Very solid points; this wouldn't address the fundamental bottleneck of food cooldown which will eventually be completely unavoidable if/when we move away from Seridia and have no TD. Even if the batch mixing allows for chance of rares for every item, time spent mixing in general is limited to food cooldowns unless you are mixing base level items such as FEs.

Should we potentially look at making this more having similar effects to Efficient mage; % chance to not use food level per mix? Or we can look at reducing food level usage by a certain % per level of perk? In whatever case, would need to think about explicit negatives and maybe conflicting perks too.... Open to more suggestions/discussions.

#5 ohmygod

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Posted 20 April 2018 - 05:32 AM

Quote

when we move away from Seridia and have no TD.
I cried I think when CDs came into EL, I may shed a tear for TD when it leave the game, so much fun therein both games because of its no CDs.

Not sure if relevant to topic, but some perk could perhaps reduce CD on all food or even allow a "i eat dead people" sort of benefit at max level, maybe, or it this perk going to be a 1 level thing?

edit added: maybe reduce poison damage on toadstools per level?

Not sure how batch mixing will work I imagined it mixing a crap load all at once , rather than one at a time, did not put much thought into how this would effect rares as mentioned in previous posts

#6 WaterBottle

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Posted 20 April 2018 - 07:55 AM

For reference so people aren't bouncing between topics, this is what the proposed perks list had for other mixing related perks in addition to this one:

View PostLearner, on 08 March 2017 - 10:33 AM, said:

....

Artificer
Artificer 1 - 1 pp - 10% increased rare mixes.
Artificer 2 - 1 pp - 20% increased rare mixes.
Artificer 3 - 1 pp - 40% increased rare mixes.

Effective Mixer
Recycler 1 - 1 pp - 0.5% chance to not` lose ingredients with a successful mix.
Recycler 2 - 1 pp - 1% chance to not lose ingredients with a successful mix.
Recycler 3 - 1 pp - 2% chance to not lose ingredients with a successful mix.

Careful Mixer
Careful Mixer 1 - 1 pp - 10% chance to not lose ingredients on critical failure.
Careful Mixer 2 - 1 pp - 20% chance to not lose ingredients on critical failure.
Careful Mixer 3 - 1 pp - 30% chance to not lose ingredients on critical failure.

Bone Eater: (+30 Food)
Bone Eater 1 - 1 pp - Can eat bones every (8s), 4% chance to drop food level to zero
Bone Eater 2 - 1 pp - Can eat bones every (6s), 2% chance to drop food level to zero
Bone Eater 3 - 1 pp - Can eat bones every (2s)

.....

So in of a more direct response to you, OMG, there is a "I eat dead people" style perk proposed at this point in time. A toadstool poison reduction is interesting, presuming there's a way to distinguish bad shroom trips vs other methods of getting poisoned.

Edit: Just to re-put it out there as L hinted at initially, the Batch Mixing mechanic could also just be something that becomes part of the base game features if we think there's enough mixing perks from the list. Also an option to keep in mind.

#7 ohmygod

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Posted 20 April 2018 - 08:18 AM

I need to search a bit more on forums WB and ty

#8 butler

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Posted 20 April 2018 - 02:02 PM

View PostWaterBottle, on 20 April 2018 - 07:55 AM, said:

<snip>
Edit: Just to re-put it out there as L hinted at initially, the Batch Mixing mechanic could also just be something that becomes part of the base game features if we think there's enough mixing perks from the list. Also an option to keep in mind.

Other mixing perks, especially careful/effective mixer and artificer look far more appealing than batch mixing atm, so i think there's an argument for it.

Batch mixing would be a real pain to do because of exactly what Panda pointed out. Would say your suggestions in post #4 would be a great way of a replacement perk.




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