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Perk - Batch Mixer


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#1 Learner

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Posted 06 April 2018 - 06:12 AM

Batch Mixer
(can make as many as you have food for up until the # of copies of level)
(note 2: this may be a game feature in the future instead)

Concerns/Issues
What this means & how it's defined needs to be clarified. There is also the Note about maybe making it a game feature instead. For example, how is this different from MixAll? What negatives does it have? Conflicts?

Discuss ....

#2 WaterBottle

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Posted 06 April 2018 - 07:58 AM

(just my initial train of thought from when it was first proposed; am not saying it should be what I am about to say)

I interpreted as how the perk levels were originally proposed: You can mix up to a certain number of copies simultaneously per mix. In other words, it speeds up mixing.

I then started making assumptions like when you MixAll and can make X items per tick (for lack of a better word), it performs the mixing of X items until food level is zero/negative just as current game mechanic.

From there my initial concerns were related to Day of Joule and the fact that people with max level of perk could machine gun out like 1M FEs in a day in the original proposal. But if the EFE chance is based each tick of mixing, then EFEs or any rare mix chance wouldn't increase; ultimately just the amount one can mix per tick changes. I think it'd be a bit much if the original proposal was: mix 10 at once, and each singular item has a chance of creating a rare.

Maybe this was implicitly included in the perk, but I assumed that yes you could make say 10 items per mix, but you could crit fail and lose all of those items. If that's a bit too harsh (and some explicit negative needed with the perk), then maybe incorporate some chance of mass crit failing

tldr; time saver for needing to mix a mass quantity of items but it's an all or nothing situation (make all, fail all, crit fall all) and chance for rare does not inherently increase

#3 PandemiC

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Posted 19 April 2018 - 08:31 AM

I was not around for the discussion of this perk but i'd like to add my two bits as a mixer here.

This does not help with mixing at all in my eyes. You are still restricted by cooldown, and the over-the-top food requirements for certain items, such as rings. Perhaps that's another issue that should be addressed at the same time. I'm happy to revise, with some input from other mixers, all food requirements into a list to go live for testing with this perk.

Nevertheless, If I were mixing lower items like FE, I would not want this perk either if that means restricting the 'rares' to each tick, rather than actual quantity as that then makes Artificier pointless . Unless as Waterbottle says, you incorporate some kind of 'mass crit failing' explicit negative to the perk instead.

Other than FE, silver and gold rings, and vials I don't actually make anything that uses anything less than 8 food. That makes only perk level #1 useful, and nothing else. I can't make more than 8 HE (15 with much nomz) before I need to eat more. It'd be a waste of a perk point to take it.

I'd like to see this perk revised completely before implemented on test or to include some kind of benefit towards either cooldowns or food requirements also instead of having to choose 'all cooldowns' (i.e. another perk), and Much nomz wow (yet another perk for only +80 food), that's if we are not addressing food requirements directly. For example; anything requiring more than 10 food is halved (making diss rings ~18 food each, and semi-bareable), or all food cooldowns are halved at level 3. (Would have to distinguish PoF/other items as food).
.

#4 WaterBottle

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Posted 19 April 2018 - 07:14 PM

I am very sleep deprived due to work/classes so I will only say more objective statements until I am more rested, but I did want to keep the ball rolling.

Very solid points; this wouldn't address the fundamental bottleneck of food cooldown which will eventually be completely unavoidable if/when we move away from Seridia and have no TD. Even if the batch mixing allows for chance of rares for every item, time spent mixing in general is limited to food cooldowns unless you are mixing base level items such as FEs.

Should we potentially look at making this more having similar effects to Efficient mage; % chance to not use food level per mix? Or we can look at reducing food level usage by a certain % per level of perk? In whatever case, would need to think about explicit negatives and maybe conflicting perks too.... Open to more suggestions/discussions.

#5 ohmygod

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Posted 20 April 2018 - 05:32 AM

Quote

when we move away from Seridia and have no TD.
I cried I think when CDs came into EL, I may shed a tear for TD when it leave the game, so much fun therein both games because of its no CDs.

Not sure if relevant to topic, but some perk could perhaps reduce CD on all food or even allow a "i eat dead people" sort of benefit at max level, maybe, or it this perk going to be a 1 level thing?

edit added: maybe reduce poison damage on toadstools per level?

Not sure how batch mixing will work I imagined it mixing a crap load all at once , rather than one at a time, did not put much thought into how this would effect rares as mentioned in previous posts

#6 WaterBottle

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Posted 20 April 2018 - 07:55 AM

For reference so people aren't bouncing between topics, this is what the proposed perks list had for other mixing related perks in addition to this one:

View PostLearner, on 08 March 2017 - 10:33 AM, said:

....

Artificer
Artificer 1 - 1 pp - 10% increased rare mixes.
Artificer 2 - 1 pp - 20% increased rare mixes.
Artificer 3 - 1 pp - 40% increased rare mixes.

Effective Mixer
Recycler 1 - 1 pp - 0.5% chance to not` lose ingredients with a successful mix.
Recycler 2 - 1 pp - 1% chance to not lose ingredients with a successful mix.
Recycler 3 - 1 pp - 2% chance to not lose ingredients with a successful mix.

Careful Mixer
Careful Mixer 1 - 1 pp - 10% chance to not lose ingredients on critical failure.
Careful Mixer 2 - 1 pp - 20% chance to not lose ingredients on critical failure.
Careful Mixer 3 - 1 pp - 30% chance to not lose ingredients on critical failure.

Bone Eater: (+30 Food)
Bone Eater 1 - 1 pp - Can eat bones every (8s), 4% chance to drop food level to zero
Bone Eater 2 - 1 pp - Can eat bones every (6s), 2% chance to drop food level to zero
Bone Eater 3 - 1 pp - Can eat bones every (2s)

.....

So in of a more direct response to you, OMG, there is a "I eat dead people" style perk proposed at this point in time. A toadstool poison reduction is interesting, presuming there's a way to distinguish bad shroom trips vs other methods of getting poisoned.

Edit: Just to re-put it out there as L hinted at initially, the Batch Mixing mechanic could also just be something that becomes part of the base game features if we think there's enough mixing perks from the list. Also an option to keep in mind.

#7 ohmygod

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Posted 20 April 2018 - 08:18 AM

I need to search a bit more on forums WB and ty

#8 butler

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Posted 20 April 2018 - 02:02 PM

View PostWaterBottle, on 20 April 2018 - 07:55 AM, said:

<snip>
Edit: Just to re-put it out there as L hinted at initially, the Batch Mixing mechanic could also just be something that becomes part of the base game features if we think there's enough mixing perks from the list. Also an option to keep in mind.

Other mixing perks, especially careful/effective mixer and artificer look far more appealing than batch mixing atm, so i think there's an argument for it.

Batch mixing would be a real pain to do because of exactly what Panda pointed out. Would say your suggestions in post #4 would be a great way of a replacement perk.

#9 ohmygod

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Posted 26 February 2019 - 05:17 AM

bump

#10 Warlock

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Posted 26 February 2019 - 07:15 PM

Dislike this perk entirely, may aswell make Macroing legal!

#11 Warlock

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Posted 26 February 2019 - 07:20 PM

Even adding this as a game feature is terrible!

#12 Warlock

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Posted 26 February 2019 - 07:38 PM

View PostWaterBottle, on 20 April 2018 - 07:55 AM, said:

For reference so people aren't bouncing between topics, this is what the proposed perks list had for other mixing related perks in addition to this one:
....

Artificer
Artificer 1 - 1 pp - 10% increased rare mixes.
Artificer 2 - 1 pp - 20% increased rare mixes.
Artificer 3 - 1 pp - 40% increased rare mixes.

Effective Mixer
Recycler 1 - 1 pp - 0.5% chance to not` lose ingredients with a successful mix.
Recycler 2 - 1 pp - 1% chance to not lose ingredients with a successful mix.
Recycler 3 - 1 pp - 2% chance to not lose ingredients with a successful mix.

Careful Mixer
Careful Mixer 1 - 1 pp - 10% chance to not lose ingredients on critical failure.
Careful Mixer 2 - 1 pp - 20% chance to not lose ingredients on critical failure.
Careful Mixer 3 - 1 pp - 30% chance to not lose ingredients on critical failure.

Bone Eater: (+30 Food)
Bone Eater 1 - 1 pp - Can eat bones every (8s), 4% chance to drop food level to zero
Bone Eater 2 - 1 pp - Can eat bones every (6s), 2% chance to drop food level to zero
Bone Eater 3 - 1 pp - Can eat bones every (2s)

.....

Lol, all of these numbers look way wrong to me.

For starters, in Artificer it only takes ONE more Perk Point from tier 2 to tier 3 for DOUBLE the rewards(WITH ONLY ONE MORE POINT SPENT????), whereas in Careful Mixer it goes from 20% to 30%. way unbalanced, each perk right now has just been made with random numbers in mind. Should probably be universal, modular for each with every single perks numbers revisited. im no good with numbers so im staying out of that, just saying it as how i see it.

I think tier 3 of ANY perk should require 2 perk points, for better managing your own perks and deciding whats REALLY necessary for you to take.

EDIT: Tier 3 should still cost 2 points, but not double the power, gives more than tier 2, but NOT double!

That sounds reasonable, more thought required into placing your perk points, and tier 3 should still ALWAYS have some negative

Bleedin' christ the whole lot of perks need re thinking lol

#13 ohmygod

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Posted 27 February 2019 - 03:36 AM

Quote

For starters, in Artificer it only takes ONE more Perk Point from tier 2 to tier 3 for DOUBLE the rewards(WITH ONLY ONE MORE POINT SPENT????),
Good pick up. These perks are not in test yet so I would assume that all this is still up for discussion and fine tuning.

Quote

and tier 3 should still ALWAYS have some negative
I agree, mixer perks don't seem to have the neg effect that the fighting perks do. but what neg effects do you suggest might be used?

How about conflicts between mixing perks, any ideas?

Back on topic for batch mixer perk:
I kind if think this perk might be nice for mass production of needed ess. A possible neg effect might be no enriched ess or pots (ghp xmana) or half xp per item or something could be used as a neg effect to balance it a tad, perhaps conflict it with in bone eater just to slow the mass production down a bit ?

*not sure if i am on the right track with this one, but i imagine that the perk is 1 click and everything is mixed instantly, or am i way off track?

#14 Kurama

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Posted 10 March 2019 - 03:01 AM

@Warlock

"Lol, all of these numbers look way wrong to me.

For starters, in Artificer it only takes ONE more Perk Point from tier 2 to tier 3 for DOUBLE the rewards(WITH ONLY ONE MORE POINT SPENT????), whereas in Careful Mixer it goes from 20% to 30%. way unbalanced, each perk right now has just been made with random numbers in mind. Should probably be universal, modular for each with every single perks numbers revisited. im no good with numbers so im staying out of that, just saying it as how i see it.

I think tier 3 of ANY perk should require 2 perk points, for better managing your own perks and deciding whats REALLY necessary for you to take.

EDIT: Tier 3 should still cost 2 points, but not double the power, gives more than tier 2, but NOT double!

That sounds reasonable, more thought required into placing your perk points, and tier 3 should still ALWAYS have some negative

Bleedin' christ the whole lot of perks need re thinking lol "

This is exactly why I don't play this shit anymore, you and everyone else don't want any changes really, just some minor boring shit that don't matter....
Most people stop playin' because there were no changes in the past 5 years that mattered...

#15 Hecate

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Posted 11 March 2019 - 01:34 PM

View PostKurama, on 10 March 2019 - 03:01 AM, said:

@Warlock

"Lol, all of these numbers look way wrong to me.

For starters, in Artificer it only takes ONE more Perk Point from tier 2 to tier 3 for DOUBLE the rewards(WITH ONLY ONE MORE POINT SPENT????), whereas in Careful Mixer it goes from 20% to 30%. way unbalanced, each perk right now has just been made with random numbers in mind. Should probably be universal, modular for each with every single perks numbers revisited. im no good with numbers so im staying out of that, just saying it as how i see it.

I think tier 3 of ANY perk should require 2 perk points, for better managing your own perks and deciding whats REALLY necessary for you to take.

EDIT: Tier 3 should still cost 2 points, but not double the power, gives more than tier 2, but NOT double!

That sounds reasonable, more thought required into placing your perk points, and tier 3 should still ALWAYS have some negative

Bleedin' christ the whole lot of perks need re thinking lol "

This is exactly why I don't play this shit anymore, you and everyone else don't want any changes really, just some minor boring shit that don't matter....
Most people stop playin' because there were no changes in the past 5 years that mattered...
I would like to state that there have been changes that have mattered. This just requires deep planing. But this is why we are adding it to test. Without it in test we would be just like you have stated. But since it's much more different, I have seen people from Eternal Lands coming to this game. Yes there are things that it is missing that we would want, but it all makes logical sense.

#16 Warlock

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Posted 14 March 2019 - 01:25 AM

View PostKurama, on 10 March 2019 - 03:01 AM, said:

@Warlock

"Lol, all of these numbers look way wrong to me.

For starters, in Artificer it only takes ONE more Perk Point from tier 2 to tier 3 for DOUBLE the rewards(WITH ONLY ONE MORE POINT SPENT????), whereas in Careful Mixer it goes from 20% to 30%. way unbalanced, each perk right now has just been made with random numbers in mind. Should probably be universal, modular for each with every single perks numbers revisited. im no good with numbers so im staying out of that, just saying it as how i see it.

I think tier 3 of ANY perk should require 2 perk points, for better managing your own perks and deciding whats REALLY necessary for you to take.

EDIT: Tier 3 should still cost 2 points, but not double the power, gives more than tier 2, but NOT double!

That sounds reasonable, more thought required into placing your perk points, and tier 3 should still ALWAYS have some negative

Bleedin' christ the whole lot of perks need re thinking lol "

This is exactly why I don't play this shit anymore, you and everyone else don't want any changes really, just some minor boring shit that don't matter....
Most people stop playin' because there were no changes in the past 5 years that mattered...

On the contrary.. I want changes that wont HURT the game in the long run, unlike you. I want all these changes, just want the numbers to be more modular per perk / per tier. Not just willy nilly added to game as originally suggested. Yes, I myself would love to be able to get countless perks to help me fight mix harvest whatever better but.. is it going to HELP the game adding as suggested or fuck it in the ass later on? ... probably the latter. Don't be so small minded Kurry, thinking the game, not for your own short term benefit

#17 Warlock

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Posted 14 March 2019 - 01:41 AM

View Postohmygod, on 27 February 2019 - 03:36 AM, said:

Quote

For starters, in Artificer it only takes ONE more Perk Point from tier 2 to tier 3 for DOUBLE the rewards(WITH ONLY ONE MORE POINT SPENT????),
Good pick up. These perks are not in test yet so I would assume that all this is still up for discussion and fine tuning.

Quote

and tier 3 should still ALWAYS have some negative
I agree, mixer perks don't seem to have the neg effect that the fighting perks do. but what neg effects do you suggest might be used?

How about conflicts between mixing perks, any ideas?

Back on topic for batch mixer perk:
I kind if think this perk might be nice for mass production of needed ess. A possible neg effect might be no enriched ess or pots (ghp xmana) or half xp per item or something could be used as a neg effect to balance it a tad, perhaps conflict it with in bone eater just to slow the mass production down a bit ?

*not sure if i am on the right track with this one, but i imagine that the perk is 1 click and everything is mixed instantly, or am i way off track?


ur not off track, and that is how this perk has been suggested atm.

On phone so can't quote very well but as OMG said: -

"A possible neg effect might be no enriched ess or pots (ghp xmana) or half xp per item or something could be used as a neg "

this has already been stated before Cant remember where exactly off top of my head but ONE mix, albeit one ess, or one FULL MIX with this perk acts as one mix, so without this perk takes several mixes to gain efe/special item, this perk would ACT as one mix. So in the long run u couldn't mix multi special items with 1 click in this perk.

#18 ohmygod

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Posted 14 March 2019 - 03:28 AM

Quote

So in the long run u couldn't mix multi special items with 1 click in this perk.
Thinking enhancements to original idea now...Does this perk need an ON/OFF setting to allow players to decide if they want to slow mix for a rare item (and full xp per item?) or Batch (fast) mix to meet or take advantage of the market demand for normal items?

Also keeping in line with Gatherer perk point cost conversation I would be prepared to use 2 perk point to obtain this perk,

#19 Kurama

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Posted 19 March 2019 - 07:11 AM

Okay, to be honest the main reason I stopped playing OL is that mixing is so god damn boring, since there's very few things to mix, nothing interesting... with perks it would reduce some time nd effort to mix which would give you time to do other things...

Anyway, I know I was a lil' harsh there, but mixing is the worst shit to do in OL, you get high level pot/alch/crafting fairly quickly but then... you just do the same shit over and over again and again aaaaand again so there's no difference other than saving a bit more resources as the chance to fail lowers... the point is if you don't wanna add any fucking items... then at least give people a bit better perks so they can focus on other stuff.

There's been way too many ideas what item's to add but yet none of them were implemented cuz people stopped talking 'bout it or they weren't "possible" cuz apparently radu's coding fucks most stuff

so, have a nice day

#20 kav

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Posted 19 March 2019 - 09:58 AM

When I envision batch mixer I see flat increases like making 5/10/15 items for the food cost of one but still requires all materials, the central idea being it speeds up mixing. Unlike other games where you only need the materials and you are not gated by food cost, food is a unique part of OL and should be addressed with other 'big belly/bone eater' type stuff. Additionally the game already has annoying built in macro prevention with the random stopping of mixes and list 'crashing' which wouldn't be required if certain aspects of the game weren't so boring and tedious.




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