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Perk - Gatherer


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#1 Learner

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 04:10 PM

Gatherer:
(cannot be combined with Gatherer Medallion)
1pp - Same effect as gatherer medallion.

#GATHER will toggle if it gathers or not

Note: Will take more work before an off/on feature can be added to make sure everything integrates properly and doesn't cause problems with Gatherer Medallions since the two will conflict in the code.

Concerns/Issues:
This will greatly reduce players buying and using Gatherer Medallions. No bad side effects if the off/on feature is added other then using up one Perkpoint.

#2 ohmygod

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 04:54 PM

May increase sales for MoMs MoLs?

#3 butler

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 10:07 AM

View PostLearner, on 17 May 2018 - 04:10 PM, said:

Gatherer:
1pp - Same effect as gatherer medallion.

Note: Will take more work before an off/on feature can be added to make sure everything integrates properly and doesn't cause problems with Gatherer Medallions since the two will conflict in the code.

Concerns/Issues:
This will greatly reduce players buying and using Gatherer Medallions. No bad side effects if the off/on feature is added other then using up one Perkpoint.
I'd make tier 1 have no option to turn it on and off, and make a 2nd tier where you can turn it on and off. It's a rather powerful perk, and I've heard it expressed as a no brainer, currently, as the only downside is negated by the fact that you can toggle it off and on. This would at least move it from a no brainer to a more thoughtful choice, as this is more immediately powerful than any of the other 1 perk point perks.

View Postohmygod, on 17 May 2018 - 04:54 PM, said:

May increase sales for MoMs MoLs?

Keep in mind that L was looking at preventing players from using MoMs with the mana perks, and i presume that means also for the HP perks, as well as that MoL/MoMs are limited by the number of ELE/EME that come into game, which is significantly lower than EFE. Gatherer's and Harvesters (which itself is kind of replaced by excavator perk) are kind of the bread and butter or high level crafting, gatherer's especially, so a lot of these perks are going to really fuck high end crafters, since we'll have far less medallion sales and be on medium level equipment like rings far more.

Need new high end craftables to replace those being hit by the perks. No other mixing skill is being hit anywhere near as hard by the new perks in terms of their wares as crafting.

#4 Warlock

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 10:11 AM

Will this perk also give you the +2 armour you get from medallion?

#5 Learner

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 10:18 AM

View PostWarlock, on 18 May 2018 - 10:11 AM, said:

Will this perk also give you the +2 armour you get from medallion?
No, this Perk only gives you Gatherer, but it is possible to wear other medallions except Gatherer.

#6 Kaddy

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 12:30 PM

I dont’t think there should be a gatherer perk.

There should be more meds with gatherer perk. Like;

Gatherer of stars
Gatherer of defense
Gatherer of armor
Gatherer of accuracy

More high end craftables for mixers and more diversity for players so it’s a win win and something that offers more strategy which is obviously what OL needs.

But I’ve said this like 10 times before, L doesn’t give a fuck.

#7 Learner

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 12:32 PM

Funny, searching on the names you game for proposed Meds turns up no other posts where you've been walking about any ideas like that with the community!

#8 Kaddy

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 02:16 PM

View PostLearner, on 18 May 2018 - 12:32 PM, said:

Funny, searching on the names you game for proposed Meds turns up no other posts where you've been walking about any ideas like that with the community!

Don’t make me dig my chatlogs.



#9 Learner

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 02:20 PM

View PostKaddy, on 18 May 2018 - 02:16 PM, said:

View PostLearner, on 18 May 2018 - 12:32 PM, said:

Funny, searching on the names you game for proposed Meds turns up no other posts where you've been walking about any ideas like that with the community!

Don’t make me dig my chatlogs.
I also have to constantly remind people that any serious suggestions need a thread in the forums so that others can be involved in the discussion! That is what I was trying to imply by saying that searching here didn't turn up any threads about it.

#10 butler

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 05:37 PM

View PostLearner, on 18 May 2018 - 02:20 PM, said:

View PostKaddy, on 18 May 2018 - 02:16 PM, said:

View PostLearner, on 18 May 2018 - 12:32 PM, said:

Funny, searching on the names you game for proposed Meds turns up no other posts where you've been walking about any ideas like that with the community!

Don’t make me dig my chatlogs.
I also have to constantly remind people that any serious suggestions need a thread in the forums so that others can be involved in the discussion! That is what I was trying to imply by saying that searching here didn't turn up any threads about it.

There are plenty of places where things that have been changed in game and have been only mentioned in game, with no signs on forums, and I found out because a random person in another timezone happened to mention it.

So lead by example sometimes.

Either way, going off topic, and kaddy's original post still has some content to discuss. I'd personally just make other medallions/capes/etc. filling out other roles. Say for capes, make one of life steal, for medallions could have one that acts like pharaoh with a heavenspawner style system, things like that. I'm still a fan of item rolls, where in mixing you could get random additional stats on items, so that things like gatherers could get different things rather than 2 armour, so that there was a collection of ones to choose from.

#11 SimAnt

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Posted 19 May 2018 - 08:53 AM

View Postbutler, on 18 May 2018 - 05:37 PM, said:

I'm still a fan of item rolls, where in mixing you could get random additional stats on items, so that things like gatherers could get different things rather than 2 armour, so that there was a collection of ones to choose from.
I like this idea.

#12 Learner

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Posted 19 May 2018 - 09:05 AM

View PostSimAnt, on 19 May 2018 - 08:53 AM, said:

View Postbutler, on 18 May 2018 - 05:37 PM, said:

I'm still a fan of item rolls, where in mixing you could get random additional stats on items, so that things like gatherers could get different things rather than 2 armour, so that there was a collection of ones to choose from.
I like this idea.
Technically, it's you get a different item. the items don't support variable stats so different items are required for all variations desired.

#13 Kaddy

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Posted 19 May 2018 - 04:52 PM

View PostLearner, on 19 May 2018 - 09:05 AM, said:

Technically, it's you get a different item. the items don't support variable stats so different items are required for all variations desired.

You have told this before, I remember.

What needs to be done to change that? Too much coding or the game engine does not support it?

I mean, I'm asking if;

1- It's possible to do that, but takes too much time?
2- It's not possible with current server/engine/whatever it is?

#14 butler

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Posted 19 May 2018 - 05:02 PM

I imagine it would require expanding item slots for storages and ways of handling inv's as more variants and items ID's would be required. Wondering what the server is capable of dealing with in terms of number of unique items. Would also imagine it would require reworking the mixing system (which i personally believe really needs it).

However, the main point i want to try and argue is that there should be a toggle for 1 perk point perk of this power, and that should come at tier 2 so that it's less of a no brainer, and a bit less essential of a choice. The medallion slot is quite a powerful one to open up for this perk.

#15 Learner

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Posted 19 May 2018 - 05:11 PM

View PostKaddy, on 19 May 2018 - 04:52 PM, said:

View PostLearner, on 19 May 2018 - 09:05 AM, said:

Technically, it's you get a different item. the items don't support variable stats so different items are required for all variations desired.

You have told this before, I remember.

What needs to be done to change that? Too much coding or the game engine does not support it?

I mean, I'm asking if;

1- It's possible to do that, but takes too much time?
2- It's not possible with current server/engine/whatever it is?
There are multiple ways this can be addressed, all of which require changes to:
1. Inventory
2. Storage
3. Trading
4. Protocol
5. Client
6. Server code anytime an item is involved

There are other methods I've considered that could work with with fewer changes in the clients, but requires the server to create new items as needed, and then maybe later on someone editing the name to be more creative. That has different risks and issues to be considered including a 32k item type limit since the protocol & client will break at that point.

#16 PandemiC

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Posted 20 May 2018 - 07:05 AM

View PostLearner, on 19 May 2018 - 09:05 AM, said:

There are other methods I've considered that could work with with fewer changes in the clients, but requires the server to create new items as needed, and then maybe later on someone editing the name to be more creative. That has different risks and issues to be considered including a 32k item type limit since the protocol & client will break at that point.

A bit offtopic but is there any reason you know of, as to why the item limit (and HP limits) were originally coded as 16 bit/short integers instead of 32bit? Just out of curiousity/educational.

#17 Learner

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Posted 20 May 2018 - 08:02 AM

View PostPandemiC, on 20 May 2018 - 07:05 AM, said:

View PostLearner, on 19 May 2018 - 09:05 AM, said:

There are other methods I've considered that could work with with fewer changes in the clients, but requires the server to create new items as needed, and then maybe later on someone editing the name to be more creative. That has different risks and issues to be considered including a 32k item type limit since the protocol & client will break at that point.

A bit offtopic but is there any reason you know of, as to why the item limit (and HP limits) were originally coded as 16 bit/short integers instead of 32bit? Just out of curiousity/educational.
I would guess to save memory & bandwidth. The early EL servers were vary low end and limited memory.

#18 Learner

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Posted 26 June 2018 - 11:52 AM

Gatherer Perk is now available for testing on Test. Use #GATHER to toggle gathering off or on

#19 Warlock

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Posted 26 June 2018 - 12:29 PM

View Postbutler, on 18 May 2018 - 10:07 AM, said:

View PostLearner, on 17 May 2018 - 04:10 PM, said:

Gatherer:
1pp - Same effect as gatherer medallion.

Note: Will take more work before an off/on feature can be added to make sure everything integrates properly and doesn't cause problems with Gatherer Medallions since the two will conflict in the code.

Concerns/Issues:
This will greatly reduce players buying and using Gatherer Medallions. No bad side effects if the off/on feature is added other then using up one Perkpoint.
I'd make tier 1 have no option to turn it on and off, and make a 2nd tier where you can turn it on and off. It's a rather powerful perk, and I've heard it expressed as a no brainer, currently, as the only downside is negated by the fact that you can toggle it off and on. This would at least move it from a no brainer to a more thoughtful choice, as this is more immediately powerful than any of the other 1 perk point perks.

Second this

#20 PandemiC

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Posted 26 June 2018 - 05:37 PM

Who would take the on/off 2nd tier though? If you do, let me say it now: I feel bad for you already.

What use is it to turn it on and off really if tier #1 is already as 'OP' as you say it is.

I can honestly think of only 1 situation where an on/off trigger would be useful and that's at the end of a boss fight where drops are not announced; and that can be very easily avoided with the use of a diss ring.

I'd contribute my thoughts on improving the '2 tier' idea but it'd be a waste... Infact, if I'm totally honest, I think you should just forget the tier 2 idea completely and nerf the perk so that the crafted option is still (more) viable. For instance, you could change it so the perk ONLY picks up gold, not rares and other mob drops, where the gatherer medallion remains unchanged.

Also, with regards to an increase in MoM and MoL sales -- I think that is HIGHLY unlikely, the break rate, vs cost, vs acquiring the ingredients currently (how often do you get an ELE/EME?) just doesn't make that sound like a possibility. If anything, crafters will now probably only sell vials,and rings; the current seridium market will just dissipate.




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