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Perk - Gatherer


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#21 Warlock

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Posted 26 June 2018 - 08:06 PM

Was really thinking about the sales of Gatherer medallions than anything.. atleast with a second tier where the #gather command becomes available to you, would make people actually consider whether they truly want this or not...

1 Perk point just sounds too low..

if it remains at 1pp i doubt gathers would ever be made/used again :P

#22 Learner

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Posted 26 June 2018 - 08:22 PM

 Warlock, on 26 June 2018 - 08:06 PM, said:

Was really thinking about the sales of Gatherer medallions than anything.. atleast with a second tier where the #gather command becomes available to you, would make people actually consider whether they truly want this or not...

1 Perk point just sounds too low..

if it remains at 1pp i doubt gathers would ever be made/used again Posted Image
That depends on how rare Perk Points and how much people want them in other Perks instead of Gatherer doesn't it?

#23 ohmygod

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Posted 27 June 2018 - 01:20 AM

My neck slot will be filled by another craftable  medallion either way if i take perk, why leave it empty? and if wearing it then of course a chance to break it?

Or are we talking about giving butler an income now that he is #2 in the crafting list? if so then i am pretty sure there are other options to make gc for crafters if not now then in the years to come.

#24 Warlock

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Posted 27 June 2018 - 09:09 AM

....what

Has absolutely nothing to do with butler at all, i just think 1 perk point for gather sounds a bit low and as a result will drive sales down on gather meds FOR EVERYONE down by a long way

#25 butler

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Posted 27 June 2018 - 05:24 PM

 Learner, on 26 June 2018 - 08:22 PM, said:

 Warlock, on 26 June 2018 - 08:06 PM, said:

<snip>
That depends on how rare Perk Points and how much people want them in other Perks instead of Gatherer doesn't it?
most people will have 8/9 perk points. It's a really strong one, and gatherer medallions are the main bread and butter seridium medallion, due to, as panda said, the enriched esses needed for doing MoM/MoL being a further restriction on making those. It's taking away pretty much the most used high end craftable (say like making a perk that nullified a serp that everyone would want, it'll make a bit impact).

 ohmygod, on 27 June 2018 - 01:20 AM, said:

My neck slot will be filled by another craftable  medallion either way if i take perk, why leave it empty? and if wearing it then of course a chance to break it?
yeah, but a lot of those being used would be uni/sun/moon/stars, which are all dropped more than made (part moon, because gatherers...). This kind of supports how powerful the gatherer perk is compared to the med.

 ohmygod, on 27 June 2018 - 01:20 AM, said:

Or are we talking about giving butler an income now that he is #2 in the crafting list? if so then i am pretty sure there are other options to make gc for crafters if not now then in the years to come.
Hello, I've been #2 before, and only been down to #6 (at my lowest) in 4 years... I've been 66+ crafting since the birth of ~R~/DvG, the guild that 42 is the continuation guild of... and 75+ crafting for over 2 years now. Your comment is kind of just blind hate to me. I've always been a high level crafter, same as bat17, pandemic, gypsynomad and makiltur. I'm just perplexed at these comments.

Also in terms of options for making gc for crafters if not now, then years to come, how about this:
Shall we remove gc drops from mobs. Maybe there are or not other options to make gc as fighters atm, but there might be some in years to come... It holds as much weight, no? Bear in mind, the gc into game by mobs to the amount taken out by them is maybe more of game economy health issue that say, crafters. (this isn't a serious suggestion, more to show the fallacy).

 Warlock, on 27 June 2018 - 09:09 AM, said:

....what

Has absolutely nothing to do with butler at all, i just think 1 perk point for gather sounds a bit low and as a result will drive sales down on gather meds FOR EVERYONE down by a long way
Right now, if I sell gatherer medallions (which i don't do nearly as much as bat17 does, nor makiltur...) they tend to go quite quickly as few people have the patience or desire to spend the hours doing seridium harvest and getting the congloms for it. Due to the number of steps to get a gatherer medallion made, and the amount of fails potential in that tree, that is why gatherers go for about 12-14.5k when they're actual "cost", ignoring fails, food, tools, etc. is around 8k-9kish.

I'll break this down, into what cost of gold you lose every time you fail something along the medallion making way:
Mixing a conglom - You risk 1k+ in essences (80 Earth, 25 matter) everytime 1 conglom fails
Seridium bar - You risk 6.5k-7k worth of ings if you fail a bar
moon medallions - you risk about 135-150gc of ings per med
gatherer medallion - you risk that 8-9kish cost

Now, if you consider that the rec is 68, and considering that there are maybe just over 10 players over 60 crafting, with only 3 players over 80... Me, Alddra & Bat17, you might see that that paying 1 perk point instead of relying on the expensive, time consuming things to make, and easy to break items, that there is quite an advantage to it. You immediately cut out the chance of losing 10k+ item that needs replacing reasonably often.

That leaves us with dis rings/tele rings to sell, which from my experience, votd rings the most popular, followed by portland and desert pines. These are also time consuming, almost assured sells, but not exactly that profitable. Vials, as I broke down to a slightly ridiculous level (along with dis rings) for people in the vial mold thread, is really a loss maker, and as i recall, many now excuse them from making them part me and ena, because of just how much you lose when making them.

Tbh, panda has some good points, and I would support that post:

 PandemiC, on 26 June 2018 - 05:37 PM, said:

Who would take the on/off 2nd tier though? If you do, let me say it now: I feel bad for you already.

What use is it to turn it on and off really if tier #1 is already as 'OP' as you say it is.

I can honestly think of only 1 situation where an on/off trigger would be useful and that's at the end of a boss fight where drops are not announced; and that can be very easily avoided with the use of a diss ring.

I'd contribute my thoughts on improving the '2 tier' idea but it'd be a waste... Infact, if I'm totally honest, I think you should just forget the tier 2 idea completely and nerf the perk so that the crafted option is still (more) viable. For instance, you could change it so the perk ONLY picks up gold, not rares and other mob drops, where the gatherer medallion remains unchanged.

Also, with regards to an increase in MoM and MoL sales -- I think that is HIGHLY unlikely, the break rate, vs cost, vs acquiring the ingredients currently (how often do you get an ELE/EME?) just doesn't make that sound like a possibility. If anything, crafters will now probably only sell vials,and rings; the current seridium market will just dissipate.


#26 Warlock

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Posted 27 June 2018 - 06:19 PM

Lets face it, Gatherer perk is much more beneficial than lets say ZEN, but yet both cost the same

#27 Warlock

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Posted 27 June 2018 - 08:13 PM

Quote

I'd make tier 1 have no option to turn it on and off, and make a 2nd tier where you can turn it on and off. It's a rather powerful perk, and I've heard it expressed as a no brainer, currently, as the only downside is negated by the fact that you can toggle it off and on. This would at least move it from a no brainer to a more thoughtful choice, as this is more immediately powerful than any of the other 1 perk point perks.

Also note, for OMG.. i floated this idea over to butler on discord, was not just him speaking out of greed as you so think

#28 PandemiC

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Posted 28 June 2018 - 06:11 AM

 Warlock, on 27 June 2018 - 06:19 PM, said:

Lets face it, Gatherer perk is much more beneficial than lets say ZEN, but yet both cost the same

I'd agree to a certain extent.

ZEN is 6 hp and mana per min, regardless of food level.
Combine this perk with a small, implementable, change to FR Cape to make it a 'x2' bonus to health and mana regen every minute (as opposed to just '3' per minute, perhaps the caveat could be the FR bonus is only active with positive food level) would make ZEN probably as useful to a harver/mixer/mage(/tank?) as what Gatherer is to a fighter/allrounder without it being too OP. If all you do is sit in a storage, why would you take Gatherer over ZEN, etc?

#29 Learner

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Posted 28 June 2018 - 06:19 AM

EL feature found and I will be fixing it ... Gatherer doesn't work in PK! I feel it should no matter what the situation is as long as a player is being credited with the death, doesn't matter if it's a mod or player that dies it should be gathered.

#30 ohmygod

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Posted 28 June 2018 - 06:48 AM

Quote

yeah, but a lot of those being used would be uni/sun/moon/stars, which are all dropped more than made (part moon, because gatherers...). This kind of supports how powerful the gatherer perk is compared to the med.
It is unfortunate that these are mobs drops and because of gatherer med relied on presently hence they dont get out of the game as much as they could....Take these off as a mob drop?, 1. it would then need to be made by crafters  2. it would increase the chance of something better (?) dropping off mobs.

There also is an option for the currently un-makable c2(?) tele rings to be made at some point, and there has been also some discussion around other new medallions for the game.

Any more than 1 PP for the perk for its full effect (on/off toggle) could be a cause for bitching, as it is i suspect that there will be complaints about players forgetting to turn it off... imo

#31 Learner

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Posted 28 June 2018 - 06:52 AM

 ohmygod, on 28 June 2018 - 06:48 AM, said:

Quote

yeah, but a lot of those being used would be uni/sun/moon/stars, which are all dropped more than made (part moon, because gatherers...). This kind of supports how powerful the gatherer perk is compared to the med.
It is unfortunate that these are mobs drops and because of gatherer med relied on presently hence they dont get out of the game as much as they could....Take these off as a mob drop?, 1. it would then need to be made by crafters  2. it would increase the chance of something better (?) dropping off mobs.
Or change then silver & gold medallions so that a crafter can make them into something?

#32 Learner

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Posted 28 June 2018 - 01:16 PM

 Learner, on 28 June 2018 - 06:19 AM, said:

EL feature found and I will be fixing it ... Gatherer doesn't work in PK! I feel it should no matter what the situation is as long as a player is being credited with the death, doesn't matter if it's a mod or player that dies it should be gathered.
Fix for Gatherer in PK is now on test. Gatherer now works in both PvP & PvE.

#33 butler

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Posted 28 June 2018 - 04:09 PM

 ohmygod, on 28 June 2018 - 06:48 AM, said:

Quote

yeah, but a lot of those being used would be uni/sun/moon/stars, which are all dropped more than made (part moon, because gatherers...). This kind of supports how powerful the gatherer perk is compared to the med.
It is unfortunate that these are mobs drops and because of gatherer med relied on presently hence they dont get out of the game as much as they could....Take these off as a mob drop?, 1. it would then need to be made by crafters  2. it would increase the chance of something better (?) dropping off mobs.

There also is an option for the currently un-makable c2(?) tele rings to be made at some point, and there has been also some discussion around other new medallions for the game.

Any more than 1 PP for the perk for its full effect (on/off toggle) could be a cause for bitching, as it is i suspect that there will be complaints about players forgetting to turn it off... imo

I've expressed my desire for alroth rings to be makeable previously, kind of given up on that happening any time soon. I'd still say that making to sell moon/sun/uni/stars will take a couple years to sort itself out due to stockpiles people have acquired from mobs (I have 50+ of most, and I know a lot of you must have a whole lot more since you do a whole lot more killing).

It's also not exactly a great consolation either, given the difference between a 100-200gc med being made makeable for crafters (these are fairly low level mixes, around 20s iirc) to removing one of the largest high end mixables.

I'd also say bitching about forgetting to toggle off/on is fine, same as bitching when people forget the meds XD.

Zen perk is kinda more situationally useful for tanking than anything else. It's kind of the if I ever had a free perk point, maybe, kind of dealio. Again, I'm just kind of concerned for the high end craftables, as L has voiced making the mana medallion non compatible with a mana perk... then this perk... then the harvestor medallions are under threat by the excavator perk which is exca cape + harv med practically...and if mana med doesn't worl with mana perk, i assume mol will have issues with the healthy guy... You can kind of see where my reservations are at. There's a chance that all high end craftables have a replacement perk, which will drive down the demand from them, which no other skill in game is kind of facing this sort of immediate parrellels with the perks.

tbh, maybe worth looking into making sure the 1 pp perks = 1 pp tiers. They are maybe at 1.5perk points worth at this time, most of them i'd say.

#34 ZeN

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Posted 04 July 2018 - 12:04 AM

Ive recently been on test and using gathers perk,,what ratio too pick up does it have,i killed 6 mobs and got no pick up

#35 Warlock

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Posted 04 July 2018 - 07:08 AM

 ZeN, on 04 July 2018 - 12:04 AM, said:

Ive recently been on test and using gathers perk,,what ratio too pick up does it have,i killed 6 mobs and got no pick up

#Gather command toggles it on/off

#36 Learner

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Posted 04 July 2018 - 12:20 PM

Must be something wrong with how you were testing it. Remember if you logout or get disconnected you have to take that Perk again. As long as the mob is dropping items AND you have room in your inventory (slots & EMU) you get them instead of them being dropped. There is no ratio and it appears to be working properly. Watch out to make sure it's not NDD any time you are testing as well.

As Warlock mention, #Gather toggles it off or on, use #list_perks to see your perks, and it will report if it is off or on.




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