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Macros/ Botting is not listed as Illegal. Why?


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#21 butler

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Posted 31 May 2018 - 06:40 PM

View PostLearner, on 31 May 2018 - 05:02 PM, said:

You said it was legal in the Title!!! Plus have implied it several times since! You also either missed or ignored the in game PM I sent that the Title was totally miss-leading, not to mention we had a long discussion about this before you posted ... and yet you continue to misrepresent the status of macroing. We had agreed it was ambiguise, yet yet so much reads like you still think its legal since it's not explicitly stated as illegal.
As I said, the title was mostly a clickbaitey title, and was somewhat to show how i've seen some people take it as. I'm trying to impress onto you the fact that though we agree it's a grey area/ambiguous, that's mostly because we believe it shouldn't be encouraged. As I've said in all those posts above, I've continuously said I know it's not legal, but that considering everything around, I can completely believe why people assume it is legal because nothing really has been done to make yu think that it isn't. That until this topic, I've seen more from you saying no to macro bans than saying no to macros. That's pretty much my main point. The perception isn't clear, and it's an example of you thinking in a different way than a lot of players.

View PostLearner, on 31 May 2018 - 06:20 PM, said:

<snip>
I could, been a very low priority, as it is I have problem finding the time needed for all the other changes OL wants/needs. I'll just put Perks, the KillBonus & the next improvement on BossDrops on hold totally while I work this out.
Why does it immediately have to jump the queue, I'd just like to put the poll up, add it formally to the ban list, and start doing the anti macroing things once we've actually got an actual update to the game to the game in however many years.

I still believe that the soft power in terms of something being outlined as illegal is still valuable, even if you aren't strongly enforcing it with hard power. It at least works as the minimum level of deterrent. Same as multi.

#22 Learner

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Posted 31 May 2018 - 06:47 PM

View Postbutler, on 31 May 2018 - 06:40 PM, said:

View PostLearner, on 31 May 2018 - 05:02 PM, said:

You said it was legal in the Title!!! Plus have implied it several times since! You also either missed or ignored the in game PM I sent that the Title was totally miss-leading, not to mention we had a long discussion about this before you posted ... and yet you continue to misrepresent the status of macroing. We had agreed it was ambiguise, yet yet so much reads like you still think its legal since it's not explicitly stated as illegal.
As I said, the title was mostly a clickbaitey title, and was somewhat to show how i've seen some people take it as. I'm trying to impress onto you the fact that though we agree it's a grey area/ambiguous, that's mostly because we believe it shouldn't be encouraged. As I've said in all those posts above, I've continuously said I know it's not legal, but that considering everything around, I can completely believe why people assume it is legal because nothing really has been done to make yu think that it isn't. That until this topic, I've seen more from you saying no to macro bans than saying no to macros. That's pretty much my main point. The perception isn't clear, and it's an example of you thinking in a different way than a lot of players.

View PostLearner, on 31 May 2018 - 06:20 PM, said:

<snip>
I could, been a very low priority, as it is I have problem finding the time needed for all the other changes OL wants/needs. I'll just put Perks, the KillBonus & the next improvement on BossDrops on hold totally while I work this out.
Why does it immediately have to jump the queue, I'd just like to put the poll up, add it formally to the ban list, and start doing the anti macroing things once we've actually got an actual update to the game to the game in however many years.

I still believe that the soft power in terms of something being outlined as illegal is still valuable, even if you aren't strongly enforcing it with hard power. It at least works as the minimum level of deterrent. Same as multi.
So many people don't read past the titles/subject and it set the entire tone. As for bumping up in priority, the instant player vote it in as an in game rule it WILL always jump up as a priority. Just like PErks is a very high priority since it was voted in, just people never stopped to think about the work needed to do it properly or the unanswered questions on some I'm still trying to get clarified.

#23 Zian

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Posted 31 May 2018 - 09:36 PM

I've always thought macroing was a form of cheating - there is no game feature/function in OL which allows ALL players to macro in game.

When players use 'tools/scripts' (not part of the OL client) to gain an advantage over players should be considered illegal.

L has better things to work on.

Regards
Zian

#24 butler

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Posted 01 June 2018 - 09:48 AM

Issue is that there are some games where it's entirely fine to macro to get an advantage, and there are MMOs where it is accepted (mostly South Korean/Chinese ones, the same ones that do slightly mad p2w systems)

Tbh, all i want it to vote in for it to be listed as illegal, without changing priorities. Is it not possible to do so? Grey areas are always bad for creating uncertainty.

Also remembered how to change the topic.

I do agree that L has better things to do, but as I keep saying, there is some deterrent in having it listed, even if it's not enforced and awful much. I gave examples of the UK TV Licence and their "enforcers." It's also an issue that the rules as a whole right now are horrible for actually getting across what is a rule when so many disclaimers are just woven in there when they cannot be read as being rules.

I simply want a written change to the rules, simply add the line on the rules page, and not go full hog onto macro hunting. I don't want the priorities changed, I'd prefer for any of this to happen after the perks come out. It is simply having a written rule to fill a loophole so it's there in the future when someone takes the mickey.

Would it be possible to vote in a written rule change but not a priority change?

#25 Learner

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Posted 01 June 2018 - 10:01 AM

The way I'm built, if that is added as a written Game Rule I will automatically start checking, thinking hard on how to have the server do it for me, and starting doing coding. Now, if you want Official Community Rules which only community voting adds/removes rules from there and the Community then accepts responsibility for identifying rules breakers, that is a different situation since the community is accepting responsibility.

#26 butler

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Posted 02 June 2018 - 02:31 PM

That was more in the line of what I was intending originally, until things like perks are sorted, where there is then time to deal with working on those Game Rules. So long as we have something written that we can use against people who do macro.

I do apologise.

#27 Learner

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Posted 02 June 2018 - 02:47 PM

View Postbutler, on 02 June 2018 - 02:31 PM, said:

That was more in the line of what I was intending originally, until things like perks are sorted, where there is then time to deal with working on those Game Rules. So long as we have something written that we can use against people who do macro.

I do apologise.
It's the distinction between a Game Rule and something else. Where it gets put can make a big difference, and so far we don't have any official community rules, so you were repeatedly implying a Game Rule. One of the big differences is where the responsibility for policing is.

#28 EatsAllLife

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Posted 04 June 2018 - 10:58 PM

It's not that big of a deal, just leave it for now. Lowest priority really. Macroing isn't great, let people cheat their way, they don't learn from it, and are susceptible to PK if in that area while AFK. Training and such, well, they can. But they gain no actual experience from it (themselves I mean, not levels). Come doing invasions and such, they're mediocre. So who cares. It's their loss.

EDIT: I don't think it's right, but doing so just hurts them, and the market. So whatever, they don't need it. But making it an issue now when players have done it for years, just takes away from game development even more.

#29 ohmygod

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Posted 07 June 2018 - 04:36 AM

Botting is bad.

Been done for years?

Those players need to fess up and take 50% xp cut and a storage wipe imo and if not and found at later date to have done it then ban all their characters and make them start from scratch




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