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TML4 Invasion, June 22-24th - Review, Feedback, Appreciation


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#1 DueCE

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Posted 25 June 2018 - 10:03 AM

TML4 Invasion - June 22-24

Just wanted to express my thanks for an awesome invasion at the summit this past weekend.  I spent about 6 hours on the map and it's the most fun I've had in an invasion in a long time.  The sheer difficulty of the invaded spawn, combined with the long trek up, the freezing climate, the numerous gigantas/RPF bosses... All made for one of the most challenging invasions that demanded nearly perfect teamwork.  Players needed to know when to fall back, coordinate restocks and think of resource consumption as a group, and even wear special gear to stay alive in the intense conditions.

On Saturday, we had a large team of about 7 players and we cleared the entire perimeter (including 4 gigantas) with ease.  
On Sunday, I spent most of the day with a smaller team on the inner circle. We didn't even get to the summit, but it kept us up until the wee hours of the morning trying to get a glimpse.

Overall, I thought the mob variety was perfect: a nice balance of polar bears, feros, WT, cycs, gm's, rabids, acw and a few Gigantas/RPF bosses.  These challenging invasions are best when there aren't 1k low level mobs mixed in, which just becomes a nuisance (this is one of the reasons I really appreciated this invasion, even on the inner circle, there was a little bit of breathing room and it didn't feel overly cluttered with "shit mobs").

The map itself is absolutely stunning.  TML4 is now my favorite map in OL, from a visual standpoint. It was the first time for me being up at the top, and while we didn't make it to the very top, the overwhelming sense of accomplishment we experienced when we made it to the bridge and was able to see the peak.. Was truly something else.

Final thoughts/criticism
*There needs to be a quicker way to reach the summit, and in particular, the inner circle.  There's a lot of ideas floating around on how this can be achieved, so I invite players to write their ideas on this thread.
PS - I personally don't mind the long walk up. It was just another factor we took into consideration when developing a strategy/plan of attack. I feel like we adapted well, by using lower-grade armors, and electing one person to stay back to try and refresh bags after deaths.  There was a couple "painful" deaths where everyone ended up dieing, and currently the walk back up to the Center of the summit is >10 mins, making it impossible to retrieve a death bag (RIP BP, iron greaves, and a serp sword I believe)
-ACWs are nice change of pace, as they hit hard/often without throwing out all those damned special effects.  Their drops seriously need tweaking, though.
-Rabid fluffys, and especially RPF, are the single best-dropping mobs in the game and probably the only ones I get a sense of excitement for watching them die.  I say "best-dropping", but really these mobs are the only ones that I find consistently drop enough to "break even", but their boosted chance to drop rare items makes them one of the few profitable high CL mobs to kill that absolutely require a team of at LEAST 3 (tank, healer and hitter)
-As I said previously, the mob mix was fantastic (not too many ACWs, few shit mobs mixed in, plenty of bosses to keep everyone excited), the location was gorgeous, and it was NEW and refreshing.  I would like to suggest to the IMs to take it even one step further.  I think an Ice Dragon sitting at the top of the summit would've been fitting :D

Alright, have to go in to work (and very sleep deprived from staying up late slaying mobs), please discuss and I hope to see more invasions of this nature in the near future.

A huge thank you to Zian for creating this beautiful map, to SAW for making the event, and to L for his awesome new invasion features. And to my all other players that are insane enough to have participated in this event.

-D



#2 Zian

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Posted 25 June 2018 - 05:25 PM

I am thinking about TM in general...I promised in the World Dev section that I would get back into TM in the future.

Thanks for the kind words on TML4 - I wanted TM to be a special place ;)

Regards
Z

#3 Warlock

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Posted 25 June 2018 - 07:02 PM

I had made the suggestion in channel for a type of tactical tele scroll/ring. One for saving your coord location, and the other for teleporting you there. If you're in a bad situation, pop ur scroll, those coords get saved(cannot set multiple tele points)
Maybe use the scroll for saving, and the ring for teleporting you there, ofcourse these items should NOT be droppable, nor able to use them while in the Underworld. also had the thought of if you forget your saved coords, being able to 'view' the ring, and in the description of the item it tells your saved map/coords. I like this idea, though i suspect it would be quite costly from a general store and/or buying them from a different NPC in TM, maybe Grenpah or whichever one sells the DL rings. I was thinking around the 10kgc mark for both in total, so maybe like 3k for the saving scroll, 7k for the tele ring. Maybe slightly less, 2k/6k

Another idea, is to have Grenpah offer carting services through to whichever level in TM you want to go, higher up, more GC cost. Right now i think hes useless selling degraded weapons. He's located just inside TML2 entrance from Drakensbane and his surroundings with carts and tracks inside the mountain is logical.

#4 AlddrA

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Posted 26 June 2018 - 06:31 AM

Whoever posted in channel about having Grenpah take us to levels in TM for a fee is a great idea.  We could discuss a fee.  Grenpah would take us to any level in TM, from the lowest level to the highest level of TM.

Obviously, a specific point on each level would have to be designated as the drop off point.

Having Grenpah on level 2 is handy since we have a storage and a ring for the DB entrance.

#5 DueCE

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Posted 26 June 2018 - 09:53 AM

View PostWarlock, on 25 June 2018 - 07:02 PM, said:

Another idea, is to have Grenpah offer carting services through to whichever level in TM you want to go, higher up, more GC cost. Right now i think hes useless selling degraded weapons. He's located just inside TML2 entrance from Drakensbane and his surroundings with carts and tracks inside the mountain is logical.

I second the grenpah cart transportation.

#6 Learner

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Posted 26 June 2018 - 10:57 AM

I would prefer it isn't called a "cart system". To me that implies something very different.

#7 Zian

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Posted 27 June 2018 - 04:49 AM

Do we just need a quicker way up to TM Summit?

#8 AlddrA

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Posted 27 June 2018 - 06:18 AM

Teleports also would be a quicker way to summit or other places in TM.

This topic did start with just a quicker way to summit, but it can be applied to all the levels of TM.

#9 WaterBottle

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Posted 27 June 2018 - 07:59 AM

Sounds like it's a matter of wanting a realistic chance to retrieve DBs that became a very noticeable issue for the TML4 invasion due to the current time it takes to traverse it. While TM brought this issue to light, I think as we expand and implement more maps and locations, it's something that'll be a point of contention.

Then the reason having a "Cart transportation" via Grenpah was brought up because it was felt he has little use in the game if nothing changes, which may be a separate discussion.

#10 butler

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Posted 27 June 2018 - 05:37 PM

View PostLearner, on 26 June 2018 - 10:57 AM, said:

I would prefer it isn't called a "cart system". To me that implies something very different.
What does it imply? If we don't know what your interpretation of our suggestions are, after we've explained them, that makes it difficult for us to answer of adjust them.

My interpretation is that you pay the NPC grenpah something and he carts you up a level, similar to boat tokens or that cart in the gypsum mountains in EL's C2 (i can't remember the map name).

On another note, the TML4 invasion was great fun, the challenge of the acw/ 4 gigas i got to fight was great, the teamwork was excellent when we had a cohesive team, and it was one of the better examples of a high end invasion, along with that old RoT invasion or RI invasions, which had a similar sort of ability to get multiple guilds binding together to take on a powerful invasion in a non to usual or used map.

#11 Learner

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Posted 27 June 2018 - 05:42 PM

View Postbutler, on 27 June 2018 - 05:37 PM, said:

View PostLearner, on 26 June 2018 - 10:57 AM, said:

I would prefer it isn't called a "cart system". To me that implies something very different.
What does it imply? If we don't know what your interpretation of our suggestions are, after we've explained them, that makes it difficult for us to answer of adjust them.

My interpretation is that you pay the NPC grenpah something and he carts you up a level, similar to boat tokens or that cart in the gypsum mountains in EL's C2 (i can't remember the map name).

On another note, the TML4 invasion was great fun, the challenge of the acw/ 4 gigas i got to fight was great, the teamwork was excellent when we had a cohesive team, and it was one of the better examples of a high end invasion, along with that old RoT invasion or RI invasions, which had a similar sort of ability to get multiple guilds binding together to take on a powerful invasion in a non to usual or used map.
When people say "Cart System", the first thing that pops into my mind is always something to help players move items, like from mines to storage in large volumes. This is just a quest to come up with a better term.

#12 Warlock

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Posted 27 June 2018 - 08:22 PM

View PostLearner, on 27 June 2018 - 05:42 PM, said:

View Postbutler, on 27 June 2018 - 05:37 PM, said:

View PostLearner, on 26 June 2018 - 10:57 AM, said:

I would prefer it isn't called a "cart system". To me that implies something very different.
What does it imply? If we don't know what your interpretation of our suggestions are, after we've explained them, that makes it difficult for us to answer of adjust them.

My interpretation is that you pay the NPC grenpah something and he carts you up a level, similar to boat tokens or that cart in the gypsum mountains in EL's C2 (i can't remember the map name).

On another note, the TML4 invasion was great fun, the challenge of the acw/ 4 gigas i got to fight was great, the teamwork was excellent when we had a cohesive team, and it was one of the better examples of a high end invasion, along with that old RoT invasion or RI invasions, which had a similar sort of ability to get multiple guilds binding together to take on a powerful invasion in a non to usual or used map.
When people say "Cart System", the first thing that pops into my mind is always something to help players move items, like from mines to storage in large volumes. This is just a quest to come up with a better term.

Fairly sure miners used their carts to transport workers aswell. Is not 'very different' as you say

#13 Learner

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Posted 27 June 2018 - 08:26 PM

View PostWarlock, on 27 June 2018 - 08:22 PM, said:

View PostLearner, on 27 June 2018 - 05:42 PM, said:

View Postbutler, on 27 June 2018 - 05:37 PM, said:

View PostLearner, on 26 June 2018 - 10:57 AM, said:

I would prefer it isn't called a "cart system". To me that implies something very different.
What does it imply? If we don't know what your interpretation of our suggestions are, after we've explained them, that makes it difficult for us to answer of adjust them.

My interpretation is that you pay the NPC grenpah something and he carts you up a level, similar to boat tokens or that cart in the gypsum mountains in EL's C2 (i can't remember the map name).

On another note, the TML4 invasion was great fun, the challenge of the acw/ 4 gigas i got to fight was great, the teamwork was excellent when we had a cohesive team, and it was one of the better examples of a high end invasion, along with that old RoT invasion or RI invasions, which had a similar sort of ability to get multiple guilds binding together to take on a powerful invasion in a non to usual or used map.
When people say "Cart System", the first thing that pops into my mind is always something to help players move items, like from mines to storage in large volumes. This is just a quest to come up with a better term.

Fairly sure miners used their carts to transport workers aswell. Is not 'very different' as you say
Except the term System being tacked on makes it sound much more comprehensive then only Grenpah send people off in carts. It's the phrase together that conjures the totally wrong image, hence the request for a different term.

#14 AlddrA

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Posted 28 June 2018 - 05:46 AM

Here's a simple term "Transport"

#15 butler

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Posted 28 June 2018 - 04:13 PM

View PostWarlock, on 27 June 2018 - 08:22 PM, said:

<snip>
Fairly sure miners used their carts to transport workers aswell. Is not 'very different' as you say

The first roller coasters were people taking coal mining carts down the hills on the return journey. Sometimes with cattle or sheep in the carts as well.

So effectively, no opposition to the concept of the NPC transporting people, rather you don't like the name. Okay, we have that cleared. So Grenpah gives transportation (as Ald said) services to adventurers using the mining cart system, sound good?

#16 CoduX

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Posted 29 June 2018 - 04:55 AM

Only OL would argue about a fucking term of transport Posted Image

#17 Kaddy

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Posted 29 June 2018 - 06:35 AM

View PostCoduX, on 29 June 2018 - 04:55 AM, said:

Only OL would argue about a fucking term of transport Posted Image

Tell me about it.

#18 Warlock

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Posted 01 July 2018 - 06:30 PM

Learner floated an idea earlier about 'using GC' on the carts located just by Grenpah, there are 4 carts there, using GC on the first would take you to Level 1, so on and so forth.
GC cost needs to be discussed, whether 'using GC' on items to transport you, or using Grenpah himself, also tele locations on each level, maybe maps need to be edited slightly?

Personally i disagree with 'using GC' on items, seems like a shortcut in what should really be done. I was thinking if some new code got made for teleport NPC's, we could have some also scattered throughout Alroth, we all know most of those maps are a pain to walk through just like Thunder Mountain due to their size. Not specific code for one NPC but can be used for more

#19 Learner

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Posted 01 July 2018 - 06:42 PM

View PostWarlock, on 01 July 2018 - 06:30 PM, said:

Learner floated an idea earlier about 'using GC' on the carts located just by Grenpah, there are 4 carts there, using GC on the first would take you to Level 1, so on and so forth.
GC cost needs to be discussed, whether 'using GC' on items to transport you, or using Grenpah himself, also tele locations on each level, maybe maps need to be edited slightly?

Personally i disagree with 'using GC' on items, seems like a shortcut in what should really be done. I was thinking if some new code got made for teleport NPC's, we could have some also scattered throughout Alroth, we all know most of those maps are a pain to walk through just like Thunder Mountain due to their size. Not specific code for one NPC but can be used for more
The USE Item on an Object (in this case GC on a Cart) is something that is already supported in map.def files and is how EL implements using Boat & Archery tickets as well as some secrets. This also means it can be easily extended to other things (such as wagons or signs) and the LOOK icon on the object can be used to give you more info as well.

Otherwise if thr NPC code is to be enhanced to handle this, it will take planning on how to do it properly instead of allowing in hacks that will require recoding each time an NPC or location is setup.

P.S. a big reason to consider GC is so you don't add extra delays in having to buy tickets since in the example of TML$ time is critical and why this is being discussed.

#20 Warlock

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Posted 01 July 2018 - 06:54 PM

I dont mind the USE GC on an item, just i think more could come from enhanced NPC code for transport(also makes it easier for new players)




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