12 replies to this topic

[SAWolf]

To map or not to map...that is my question

One of the big issues for many players is the lack of maps for internal areas and there seems to be a bit of a clash of opinions with regards to whether or not players should have access to detailed internal maps.

I think everyone who played EL downloaded a version of Bloodsucker, Olivine or Burns set of detailed maps. The reason being the maps released with the game were vague and only gave locations of important places. Our external maps are a step better then that with clear outlines of buildings but many internal maps are non-existent. This coupled with the bug that prevented players from making map marks in the new lands has made many players avoid DL completely.

Some of the discussion has been that internal maps are messy who wants a map of little boxes. I counter this argument with not all the internals are little boxes and especially AD with the 5 roomed hall that leads to the 5 possible exits into Gara's circle can be a nightmare to figure out how to get the hell out of there.

The next reason for not having detailed internal maps is that they expose hidden places or secret areas that players should discover for themselves. However players seeing an area but not knowing how to get there will lead to much more exploration and discovery than players not knowing that area exists at all. How many people have seen the three 'secret' rooms in Vermor Castle and how many people know how to get into each one?

I really don't think there is a need for every tree, bush or blade of grass, every table chair or bar to be clearly shown. but at least the basic outline of the area and possibly a door shown would encourage more exploration and players would be more likely to venture out into the new lands and hunt Joker with enthusiasm.

You could say that having good maps encourages players to map walk too much and not take in the surroundings of a map but players don't really map walk much on inside areas? We already have fairly decent outside maps.

Another good reason for having maps without large blank areas is that it makes the game look complete and not like someone did a half a job on a map. Going into one of the DL caves and seeing you are in a 'blank' spot makes players think that the TAB maps version hasn't caught up with the map makers not "Yay, I found a secret area"

Would having inside maps be good for the game or bad? Was there something in the above that I missed?

[AlddrA]

Having inside maps would be good for the game 100%....

[Bat17]

I use the mini map in sto to head for the door when leaving, its easier than spinning my view around and clicking to get to the door! I am all in favour of good maps. I don't need all of the resources in them, I can add that with map markers which apparently will work now but I have not tested them yet.

[Learner]

Map Markers do work properly in 1.9.5, was one of the bug fixes I made sure were included in that.

[ebattleon]

Learner, on 23 September 2018 - 05:57 AM, said:

Map Markers do work properly in 1.9.5, was one of the bug fixes I made sure were included in that.

So now i can put Map markers on a big black block which is what a missing tab map is when there is none existing?

[Zian]

Just to be clear, many, if not all EL Inside maps do NOT have a TAB Map including some very large undergrounds/sewers/etc.

[SAWolf]

But everyone has downloaded Bloodsucker's or Olivine's maps and applied them.

I have maps for all EL inside maps. Hands up if you do to: o/

[AlddrA]

o/

[Warlock]

Will feel that slight bit more 'complete' having inside maps. I say yes

[WaterBottle]

In terms of game completeness, I agree that having inside maps should be included as part of that goal. As pointed out, don't need inside maps for small enclosed places like houses but for larger areas it should be available.

[BlakKat]

It is straightforward to generate the basic outlines, but as pointed out above they look ugly especially if there are lots of small rooms.

I guess at this point it is irrelevant what I am thinking about inside maps, but I feel that while the obvious insides could (and should, in particular storages or big caves) have inside maps, there should also be secrets.

At this time I can only provide raw-tab maps, i.e. no labels/markers, no hiding of undesired structures, just the outlines generated from the elm.gz.

Either way, whatever the community decides, probably somebody would need to step up and customize the maps. It is not very time consuming (about 10 -30 minutes / map). The best would be if that person has some basic linux skills so that he/she can set up the environment to generate the maps (I have a little tutorial I wrote for myself and will be happy to help). Alternatively, somebody with these skills sets up a server where the marker-files (see below) are submitted and which then returns the generated tab-map. Then the work can be shared.

Here is some sample customization code, so that you can see what would need to be done to a typical (in this case an inside) map.

  1 outline false
  2 walkable-gamma 1.3 1.5 1.5
  3 full-gamma 8 8 8
  4 ##################################################
  8 99 196 90 100 arrow.png -16 9 0 -25 Braigor
  9 raised-text 200 288 0 35 Braigor\\nGold_Mine
10 ##################################################
11 raised-text 260 115  0 35 Morog\\nDiamond_Mine
12 51 101 90 100 double-arrow.png
13 151 54 0 100 double-arrow.png
14 206 17 90 100 arrow.png -14 7 0 -25 Morog
15 297 64 -45 100 double-arrow.png

[Mixi]

Not only do I have (and heavily use) all EL inside maps. I even made a set of inside maps last year of the DL for Joker hunting. They are still on my old broken laptop waiting to be retrieved. Until then, I have stopped hunting Joker, on inside/underground areas, since it is a pita without inside maps.
I do not see any valid reason not to have inside maps.
If you want to put map marks on an inside without TAB map, you will need a blank map with the proper name in the proper place, otherwise marks (and Joker when looking at the mini map!!) won't show up.

[Learner]

Mixi, on 30 September 2018 - 02:05 AM, said:

...
If you want to put map marks on an inside without TAB map, you will need a blank map with the proper name in the proper place, otherwise marks (and Joker when looking at the mini map!!) won't show up.

I consider that something that the client should address since it's a poor implementation of the minimap issue that it doesn't work properly without a TAB map