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Passed - Upgrade KillBonus to use the DamageTracker


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Poll: Upgrade KillBonus (26 member(s) have cast votes)

Approval to upgrade the KillBonus to the proposed system that uses DamageTracker currently on Test?

  1. Yes, lets do it now, even if we have more updates later (24 votes [92.31%])

    Percentage of vote: 92.31%

  2. No, there are things to be done to it still or don't want it (2 votes [7.69%])

    Percentage of vote: 7.69%

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#1 Learner

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 07:48 AM

See https://www.other-li...-to-kill-bonus/ for all the previous discussions.

This Poll is to get approval to upgrade the KillBonus to use the DamageTracker data that's been getting tested. To reduce the impact the new system will be used only when the system thinks that more then one player/mob may be responsible for the death.

Several things to consider:
  • How the exp is split will NOT be announced, but will still be logged for a while
  • There are times the new system may be used unexpectedly
  • Why only a single player is involved, the old system is the default (which does NOT give exp for Ranging or Magic), this will be re-evaluated later
  • The system can even be triggered on single combat maps since players can take turns without losing their share.
  • Mirror, Rings of Damage, Summons, Unicorn etc can reduce how much exp is handed out to players
  • Players must be logged when the mob dies to get your exp
  • Players do NOT need to be near the mob, and can be on a different map
  • Players that were involved, and the stop & don't do anything may get less or no exp as time goes on (such as the monster healing up)
  • Damage done to the mob gets split up into Attack, Ranging, and Magic based on how much damage of each type you did
  • Defense is award based on how many successful hits against each player that don't kill them
  • Dieing does NOT clear your stats from the combat and you are still eligible for exp.
  • Logging out or grueing does NOT clear your stats against monsters as long as you log back in before exp is awarded
  • Name changes will clear any pending exp you might earn (but this won't happen often at all)
  • Summoners and Healers will NOT benefit from this upgrade
  • Your levels in the skills involved does affect how much exp you can earn
  • God bonuses & SpecialDays are handled after the award split up
  • Rationality does add to the exp, but not as much as some may expect
  • In some cases, you can get less exp then the current system
  • Overall, more total exp is expected to be handed out
Think of the new system as handing out exp based more on how you play then just your skill vs the monsters skill.

If you do not want this to go live, please take the time to explain why not in a reply or a Forum PM to me. Since this is a more major change I do want all the players to have a say if they like this change or not.

#2 AlddrA

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 07:53 AM

Voted yes. Checked it out on test and am happy with the results even if more updates are needed later.

Fairly sure, most players will agree.

#3 Hecate

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 09:50 AM

View PostLearner, on 08 March 2019 - 07:48 AM, said:

See https://www.other-li...-to-kill-bonus/ for all the previous discussions.

This Poll is to get approval to upgrade the KillBonus to use the DamageTracker data that's been getting tested. To reduce the impact the new system will be used only when the system thinks that more then one player/mob may be responsible for the death.

Several things to consider:
  • How the exp is split will NOT be announced, but will still be logged for a while
  • There are times the new system may be used unexpectedly
  • Why only a single player is involved, the old system is the default (which does NOT give exp for Ranging or Magic), this will be re-evaluated later
  • The system can even be triggered on single combat maps since players can take turns without losing their share.
  • Mirror, Rings of Damage, Summons, Unicorn etc can reduce how much exp is handed out to players
  • Players must be logged when the mob dies to get your exp
  • Players do NOT need to be near the mob, and can be on a different map
  • Players that were involved, and the stop & don't do anything may get less or no exp as time goes on (such as the monster healing up)
  • Damage done to the mob gets split up into Attack, Ranging, and Ranging based on how much damage of each type you did
  • Defense is award based on how many successful hits against each player that don't kill them
  • Dieing does NOT clear your stats from the combat and you are still eligible for exp.
  • Logging out or grueing does NOT clear your stats against monsters as long as you log back in before exp is awarded
  • Name changes will clear any pending exp you might earn (but this won't happen often at all)
  • Summoners and Healers will NOT benefit from this upgrade
  • Your levels in the skills invovled does affect how much exp you can earn
  • God bonuses & SpecialDays are handled after the award split up
  • Rationality does add to the exp, but not as much as some may expect
  • In some cases, you can get less exp then the current system
  • Overall, more total exp is expected to be handed out
Think of the new system as handing out exp based more on how you play then just your skill vs the monsters skill.

If you do not want this to go live, please take the time to explain why not in a reply or a Forum PM to me. Since this is a more major change I do want all the players to have a say if they like this change or not.

All this seems like a good idea, esp if someone is trying to kill something but they died.
BUT THERE IS A NEGATIVE: if a players tries to kill something (for example kills it half way) then they still get exp for it. Only if the mob gets killed soon, because lets say if a team tries to kill a red dragon but you end up dieing and giving up, without exiting game, the longer it takes to kill it the less exp. So it's good to have a tank and multiple hitters/healers.

#4 Learner

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 10:30 AM

View PostHecate, on 08 March 2019 - 09:50 AM, said:

All this seems like a good idea, esp if someone is trying to kill something but they died.
BUT THERE IS A NEGATIVE: if a players tries to kill something (for example kills it half way) then they still get exp for it. Only if the mob gets killed soon, because lets say if a team tries to kill a red dragon but you end up dieing and giving up, without exiting game, the longer it takes to kill it the less exp. So it's good to have a tank and multiple hitters/healers.
Correct,that is a negative, until you also think about how many high end mobs like RD's get killed currently without awarding any exp as a kill bonus. In those cases, that exp would have been 'lost' and under the new system can be awarded to players, even those that died for the cause. If you do not return to the fight and the mob keeps healing, it's reasonable that what ever damage you did might get healed, hence the fading away over time of attacks against it based on how much it heals.

The handling of Healing is not perfect, but a compromise intended to account for the healing and reduce abuse by people that really aren't trying to be active or had to go AFK during the fight while still trying to award exp that may otherwise get 'lost'.

#5 Warlock

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 02:12 PM

Absolutely voted yes, great change!

Kinda off topic here but anyway, since now ranging and magic will most likely get a boost, i think its a good time to introduce craftable arrows, and elemental arrows(probably with a decrease in their stats, and maybe drop only?) to compliment this exp change more, i expect to see lots of new ranging levels in the near future

#6 Learner

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 02:27 PM

View PostWarlock, on 08 March 2019 - 02:12 PM, said:

Absolutely voted yes, great change!

Kinda off topic here but anyway, since now ranging and magic will most likely get a boost, i think its a good time to introduce craftable arrows, and elemental arrows(probably with a decrease in their stats, and maybe drop only?) to compliment this exp change more, i expect to see lots of new ranging levels in the near future
Isn't that a case as to why arrows should cost more? Heheheeeeeee

#7 Learner

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 03:48 PM

To clarify several related questions people have:

Voting YES for this doesn't mean we stop improving things, but allows what we have so far to go live. There are still issues with Healers and the old style KillBonus to be looked at as well as other tuning.

Think of this as a large step in a final direction, not the end of it!

#8 ohmygod

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 08:06 PM

I voted no just because I can. :) Great improvement for range and magic xp.

#9 Learner

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Posted 08 March 2019 - 08:08 PM

View Postohmygod, on 08 March 2019 - 08:06 PM, said:

I voted no just because I can. Posted Image Great improvement for range and magic xp.
Considering your comments previously ... that makes no sense, but up to you and thank you for stating why on the NO vote.

#10 ohmygod

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Posted 09 March 2019 - 09:30 AM

Was me being funny, because it is obviously a great change for players (myself included) but seems to have been taken the wrong way.

Changed my vote to yes and great work L for getting it to this stage. Well done and yes fine tuning still to come and adding in some how the xp for magic user/s casting remote heal in a boss fight, and also consideration for how players may get the range / magic xp for solo kills.

#11 Learner

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Posted 09 March 2019 - 10:23 AM

View Postohmygod, on 09 March 2019 - 09:30 AM, said:

Was me being funny, because it is obviously a great change for players (myself included) but seems to have been taken the wrong way.

Changed my vote to yes and great work L for getting it to this stage. Well done and yes fine tuning still to come and adding in some how the xp for magic user/s casting remote heal in a boss fight, and also consideration for how players may get the range / magic xp for solo kills.
I was pretending to take you the wrong way :)

As for the single kill using the new system, want to keep on eye on how things are going before considering expanding it, since single kills happen a lot more often then multi-kills and are less risky. Plus, multi-kills was a bad weak spot which had to be addressed since lots of exp was going missing.

#12 PandemiC

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Posted 10 March 2019 - 08:46 AM

View PostLearner, on 08 March 2019 - 07:48 AM, said:

  • Mirror, Rings of Damage, Summons, Unicorn etc can reduce how much exp is handed out to players
  • Summoners and Healers will NOT benefit from this upgrade
  • Rationality does add to the exp, but not as much as some may expect
  • In some cases, you can get less exp then the current system

Voted no:
- How it is currently is a good 'proof of concept' and I'd like to keep it there currently.
- Would like to see improvements made for healers and summoners first before proceeding.
- Would like to understand more as to why rationality does not bonus as much as some may expect - isn't this the point of rationality?
- Those that do spend PP in rationality generally are range/healers, so nerfing that is a bit pointless, also healers don't benefit at all currently so double neg there.
- Generally, I see most changes or projects that are being worked on currently only seem to benefit the combat playstyle. I would like to see more work done on mixing, making the game more unique, than progressing with another change to damage tracking/exp handouts.

#13 Learner

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Posted 10 March 2019 - 08:59 AM

View PostPandemiC, on 10 March 2019 - 08:46 AM, said:

View PostLearner, on 08 March 2019 - 07:48 AM, said:

  • Mirror, Rings of Damage, Summons, Unicorn etc can reduce how much exp is handed out to players
  • Summoners and Healers will NOT benefit from this upgrade
  • Rationality does add to the exp, but not as much as some may expect
  • In some cases, you can get less exp then the current system

Voted no:
- How it is currently is a good 'proof of concept' and I'd like to keep it there currently.
- Would like to see improvements made for healers and summoners first before proceeding.
- Would like to understand more as to why rationality does not bonus as much as some may expect - isn't this the point of rationality?
- Those that do spend PP in rationality generally are healers, so nerfing that is a bit pointless, also healers don't benefit at all currently so double neg there.
- Generally, I see most changes or projects that are being worked on currently only seem to benefit the combat playstyle. I would like to see more work done on mixing, making the game more unique, than progressing with another change to damage tracking/exp handouts.
The Rationality bonus isn't nerfed, just since you are getting %'s of the possible exp, that % also affects how much of the rationality bonus is awarded to you.

There are technical issues still with trying to handle Summoners & Healers because if done improperly it will either be ineffective or prone to abuse. Example, we don't track on a player which exact mob did the damage, so healing them we can't track back to when mob the healing exp needs to be tracked on.

#14 PandemiC

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Posted 10 March 2019 - 09:04 AM

Exactly the reason why I voted no.

If those damage outputs can't be tracked, or the 'technical issues' still remain sometime down the line, why spend the time/effort on this when there are plenty of other 'open' projects that need to be finished.

Would you be able to at least provide an "ETA" on when those "technical issues" could be resolved, ultimately to make this project worth your time/players input?

#15 Learner

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Posted 10 March 2019 - 09:08 AM

View PostPandemiC, on 10 March 2019 - 09:04 AM, said:

Exactly the reason why I voted no.

If those damage outputs can't be tracked, or the 'technical issues' still remain sometime down the line, why spend the time/effort on this when there are plenty of other 'open' projects that need to be finished.

Would you be able to at least provide an "ETA" on when those "technical issues" could be resolved, ultimately to make this project worth your time/players input?
No, I don't have an ETA on those issue, which is why I offered this as a step in the right direction, but point out known problems. The original intent of this was to help handle the 'lost' kill bonuses that happen in team combat, and while being worked and better handling of dividing the exp based how they player is involved beyond what was envisioned. So often shen you have to gang up on strong mobs it might be Ranging or Magic that does the killing blow so no exp bonus was awarded, and when it was awarded, the Tank that takes so much punishment often got nothing unless get got really lucky.

#16 butler

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Posted 16 March 2019 - 01:35 PM

View PostLearner, on 08 March 2019 - 07:48 AM, said:

<Snip>
  • Defense is award based on how many successful hits against each player that don't kill them
<snip>

Maybe stupid question, but successful hits mean hits that land and do damage / absorbed or also dodges given the toughness/reaction. Wording is odd.

otherwise panda's logic makes sense, and since i haven't kept up with this change i don't know how finished/finessed it is, so won't vote.

#17 Learner

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Posted 16 March 2019 - 01:44 PM

View Postbutler, on 16 March 2019 - 01:35 PM, said:

View PostLearner, on 08 March 2019 - 07:48 AM, said:

<Snip>
  • Defense is award based on how many successful hits against each player that don't kill them
<snip>

Maybe stupid question, but successful hits mean hits that land and do damage / absorbed or also dodges given the toughness/reaction. Wording is odd.

otherwise panda's logic makes sense, and since i haven't kept up with this change i don't know how finished/finessed it is, so won't vote.
In my opinion, a successful hit doesn't have to do damage. A Tank should not be penalized for being able to absorb the damage! If I have meant a hit that caused damage, I would have said so. But, if a hit is dodged it doesn't benefit on the DefenseBonus, since I'm not about to use attempted hits, and the ability to dodge is part of the to-hit calculation.

Yes, that does mean if you are biased to absorb the damage instead of dodging it you may be able to increase your DefExp ... at the risk of getting killed by a CritDamage blow. While living through any hit that lands does help your DefExp.

Not perfect, but trying to find reasonable balances based on how things are processed and stores.

#18 Learner

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 04:12 PM

Considering the number of votes and the high % in favor ... I plan on closing Voting in the near future! If you have questions or concerns that you'd rather mention in public, please contact me directly!

#19 Learner

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Posted 20 March 2019 - 12:03 PM

On Main and more tuning in progress.

#20 ohmygod

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Posted 21 March 2019 - 01:23 AM

\o/

Looking for team to help clear TM4!!

Add: NVM they got cleared already, back to cyc spawn until weekend invasions to wait for Mr D to come play PK.Posted Image




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