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#1 St_ArcaNe

St_ArcaNe

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 02:38 PM

I was banned in OL for spamming in EL. Figured I'd post the conversation I had with learner here.

St_Arcane:

Sent Today, 03:55 PM
You were booted by Learner!

wtf?


Learner:

Sent Today, 04:35 PM
We can talk about it here or in the forums, your choice.

St_Arcane:
Sent Today, 05:09 PM
I am gutted learner... I can't believe you blindsided me like that.

If we take this onto the forum I believe things will almost certainly end in my favour, and be really bad PR for OL. It will also open up a lot of old wounds and piss off a lot of ppl, and chase off all the people who had to be dragged here due to their apprehension over a truly democratic system and finally being rid of the tyranny of EL moderation.

Feel free to make a poll about it if you want.

This betrayal has faded my hopes/enthusiasm for OL succeeding where EL failed.


Learner:
Sent Today, 05:16 PM
I don't think it's a betrayal unless it was you betraying me.

He I am trying to make OL work nicely, just finished fixing some things in an update everyone will enjoy, and then I see one of my players on purpose causing problem in EL when OL owes a lot to EL.

I feel that reflects badly on my and the OL community. I don't want OL players purposefully causing trouble in EL, just like I don't want to be trying to steal away the entire EL community.

While I may have over reacted by locking you, you blindsided me right after I had a bunch of issues I had dealt with in OL. What you did is about the only thing that could make me react.



St_Arcane:

Sent Today, 05:36 PM
You locked me for something I've done in EL, something I've done many times long before you re-opened OL. This issue has nothing to do with OL, the only connection is that I play and beta-test OL. I also play LOTRO and beta-test new content there...

I used a name not even remotely close to St_Arcane, which is my name in EL and in OL, so only you making an issue over the matter exposed that it's 1 of 'your' players.

You turned this into an EL-OL issue... I am not a vindictive person by nature, especially not over minor-imaginary slights. it took a lot to make me feel this much animosity to EL and the people who represent it.

You were off to such a good start, and I always thought you were a half-decent guy, I get that you probably feel that my problem with EL means you have to protect EL, but bringing it to OL you just mess up what you stand for.

I'm not trying to lecture you or make you appologise to me or something, I get that you have a lot of pressure due to being the only developer in an mmorpg in it's fledgling state, but try to remember to keep the 2 games seperate. It's going to be rly hard for me to go back now and try to make this seem like a minor incident. I really, really don't want to break down everything that OL has built up so far.

I can't think of any way to do that right now, but I'll ponder over a way to play it down, and not make a scene.

Learner:
Sent Today, 07:37 PM
All I want is for you to stop causing trouble on purpose in EL. Just stop and I have no problem unlocking.



St_Arcane:

Sent Today, 08:36 PM
and by locking me in OL you are going to have the desired effect?

All I want is to be exempt from moderation in this game for actions committed in another game.

Honestly I am not trying to be difficult, if my intention is causing chaos like aislinn is trying to make people believe I'd have started a campaign vs this as soon as it started.

The reason I cannot accept your terms is that I do not want to have a sword hanging over my head, to have to worry about being moderated in OL if I do something wrong in EL, especially since you are always the one advocating that we need to seperate the 2, and not to drag EL problems to OL.

Learner:
Sent Today, 08:41 PM
It's only the causing problems on purpose in EL that risks OL issues. People breaking other rules I can easily ignore. But a troublemaker going into EL to cause problems on purpose hurt OL, including getting patches from Ent, me, and the OL community,


Learner:
Sent Today, 08:43 PM
For example, Ent & I just exchanged a couple changes with each other, one from Ent could have had serious server issues. Getting EL pissed off at us is not good for OL. Keep in mind that without EL, there would be no OL.



St_Arcane:
Sent Today, 10:12 PM
Bah that's fkn bs man.

w/e tho, fine I'll stop logging into EL to spam their channels, but that's it, nothing else.

Also I want to post this entire conversation in the bans forum, and if your actions in EL still has an effect on you in OL people should know about it.


Learner:
Sent Today, 10:22 PM
Fine, that's all I need, you can still bash them in Unoff for all I care.

I'll unlock you now.

#2 groomsh

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 02:59 PM

Here is the whole convo (unedited, just replaced smilies - forum restrictions):
[15:51:08] #Message from Learner: St_Arcane is locked for spamming EL about Burn again in @6
[15:51:21] [Marked @ 1]: on OL ?
[15:51:22] [Kaddy @ 1]: LOL
[15:51:22] [shultZ @ 1]: lawl
[15:51:22] [Hades @ 1]: locked here or in EL ?
[15:51:27] [Hussam @ 1]: lol
[15:51:34] [Learner @ 1]: locked her for doing it on EL
[15:51:39] [Hades @ 1]: lol wth
[15:51:40] [Aman @ 1]: hmm..
[15:51:41] [Salt @ 1]: something in EL gets you banned in OL? wait what
[15:51:42] [Marked @ 1]: respect
[15:51:47] [Aman @ 1]: u sure that's a good idea?
[15:51:49] [Ozmondius @ 1]: that's not right, imo
[15:51:55] [Hades @ 1]: i cant agree with that
[15:51:57] [Learner @ 1]: I will not stand for that crap since I still have to mod there
[15:52:03] [Ozmondius @ 1]: we have said over and over that this is not EL
[15:52:08] [Kaddy @ 1]: Well you said leave the shit there when you come?
[15:52:08] [Hades @ 1]: well he didnt do it in OL
[15:52:12] [Ozmondius @ 1]: EL is EL, OL is OL
[15:52:14] [PM to Aisy: don't we love Learner ? :D]
[15:52:16] [Hades @ 1]: yeah
[15:52:16] [Aisy @ 1]: he's totally disrespecting learner imo
[15:52:21] [Hades @ 1]: wtf
[15:52:22] [Hades @ 1]: no
[15:52:26] [Learner @ 1]: he is only doing that to cause trouble and I do not want OL causing trouble for EL like that
[15:52:30] Mother Nature got pissed off at MantyCore, who lost 16 health
[15:52:39] [Ozmondius @ 1]: i think that's a dangerous connection learner
[15:52:47] [Salt @ 1]: dangerous connection indeed
[15:53:04] [Frytka @ 1]: well, radu would think that Learner is friend of arcane
[15:53:10] [Learner @ 1]: we can take this to the forums, but remember OL owes it's life to EL
[15:53:32] [Kaddy @ 1]: It doesn't feel right to me to be honest.
[15:53:33] Frytka: or 25% to not drop : P
[15:53:36] [Ozmondius @ 1]: fine, give a nod to origins, then clean break
[15:53:43] [Aisy @ 1]: tell that to st_a
[15:53:53] [Aisy @ 1]: seems to me he's the one who can't bleeping grow up
[15:54:02] [Kaddy @ 1]: He can do whatever he wants to do in EL, this is not EL, right?
[15:54:15] [Aisy @ 1]: he is disrespecting LEARNER who is a part of BOTH
[15:54:18] Frytka: train? : P
[15:54:22] [Learner @ 1]: and it was pure spam, not just a one little thing
[15:54:26] Frytka'(
[15:54:31] [Ozmondius @ 1]: imo, he was disrespecting burn
[15:54:32] [Siarato @ 1]: can i just ask, dont want to get banned or anything but who is this char that we arent supposed to talk about, ive been gone for over 3yrs now?
[15:54:44] [Aisy @ 1]: it doesn't matter who it is
[15:54:47] [Frytka @ 1]: Lord Voldemort
[15:54:48] [Ozmondius @ 1]: sure it does
[15:54:51] [Aman @ 1]: it doesn't matter if he spams 'hi burn' or 'i want cookie'
[15:54:53] [shultZ @ 1]: Its alot of stupid shit
[15:54:55] [Ozmondius @ 1]: we going to ban him for disrespecting his mother?
[15:55:10] [Aisy @ 1]: and that is relevant how?
[15:55:12] [Ozmondius @ 1]: she bought the computer that allowed him to play both EL and OL
[15:55:20] [Hades @ 1]: (*) Hades summoned a Wolf
[15:55:23] [Ozmondius @ 1]: it's about as relevant as banning for behavior in a separate game
[15:55:36] [Frytka @ 1]: but it isn't separate game
[15:55:39] [Salt @ 1]: it is
[15:55:42] [Kaddy @ 1]: Well Learner, you have to leave your stuff in EL when you come here, too.
[15:55:43] [Ozmondius @ 1]: lmao
[15:55:50] [Kaddy @ 1]: Like you told us.
[15:55:52] [Ozmondius @ 1]: ^^
[15:55:59] [Learner @ 1]: we can let him back in once I cool down if you want, but I don't want people here continuing to abuse EL
[15:56:06] [Salt @ 1]: learner was the one stressing few days ago that OL is different from EL lol, now we banned for soemthing that happens in EL, makes no sense for me
[15:56:10] [Ozmondius @ 1]: just radu then
[15:56:18] [Ozmondius @ 1]: nothing wrong with EL, except radu
[15:56:41] [Marked @ 1]: ol is children of el and thats fact, abuse el you abuse ol too 
[15:56:51] [Ozmondius @ 1]: disagree
[15:56:57] [DaBraT @ 1]: tbh, i understand being upset but what happens in EL stays in EL and same goes for OL, imo
[15:57:08] [Aman @ 1]: can't you see learner can't just drop EL in 1 sec, and someone who came here to play and stayed there to cause trouble is stupid?
[15:57:10] [Learner @ 1]: and it was on purpose as well
[15:57:13] [Frytka @ 1]: lost 2 slots out of 16 : P
[15:57:51] [shultZ @ 1]: Im not one to speak but just going to EL to cause trouble because he thinks he can just walk into OL is wrong, but i dont think he should be banned right off 
[15:58:11] [Learner @ 1]: shall I start a thread in bans for him to answer to or let him start it or?
[15:58:16] [Learner @ 1]: ah, there he is
[15:58:18] [St_Arc @ 1]: lolwtf You were booted by Learner!
[15:58:28] [Salt @ 1]: oh and we answered my question, who will get banned first, st_...wish i had pud money on that  : P
[15:58:36] [Learner @ 1]: yes, for abusing EL, which reflects bad on OL
[15:58:36] [Aisy @ 1]: Act like a dickhead, get treated like one. Geeez.
[15:58:44] [St_Arc @ 1]: erm
[15:58:52] [St_Arc @ 1]: oh ok then
[15:58:57] [Dugur @ 1]: *gets popcorn
[15:59:01] [Kaddy @ 1]: ^
[15:59:03] [Frytka @ 1]: *gets cola
[15:59:08] You started to harvest Lilacs.
[15:59:16] [Ozmondius @ 1]: brushes teeth to remove bad taste in mouth
[15:59:20] [Frytka @ 1]: Oo
[15:59:23] Your harvesting experience limit for this hour expired, you won't get any more harvesting EXP until the next hour.
[15:59:40] [Kaddy @ 1]: 206 exp per helm, nice
[15:59:42] [Frytka @ 1]: maybe use toothpaste : P
[15:59:48] [Learner @ 1]: we were just having a discussion abot what I did before you popped back in
[15:59:48] [Hades @ 1]: anybody selling srs? lol
[15:59:50] This is your 1 minute warning for the coming sunset.
[15:59:58] [Ozmondius @ 1]: i'll need to use a 1/2 tube
[16:00:02] groomsh found a bag of gold, getting 16 gold coins
[16:00:02] You stopped harvesting.
[16:00:05] You started to harvest Lilacs.
[16:00:08] [St_Arc @ 1]: ah well it was actually cause of this http://s1.zetaboards.com/Unofficial_EL_Forums/single/?p=1890679&t=4925031
[16:00:48] [Learner @ 1]: that is still no reason for you to repeat your idiotic spamming in EL again
[16:01:00] [St_Arc @ 1]: and? thought EL was a different entity
[16:01:06] Too heavy, you are overloaded.
[16:01:06] You stopped harvesting.
[16:01:16] [Aisy @ 1]: that's one annoying ass siggy too, messing up the whole page formatting
[16:01:19] [DaBraT @ 1]: free ateh
[16:01:34] [Ozmondius @ 1]: it's like banning me in Runes of Magic for something I did in WoW because RoM is a takeoff of WoW
[16:01:35] [Learner @ 1]: which I still have to moderate and it will reflect bad on OL if OL players are going into EL and causing trouble
[16:01:50] [Learner @ 1]: except OL owes it's life to EL
[16:02:00] [Ozmondius @ 1]: RoM owes its life to WoW
[16:02:14] [St_Arc @ 1]: it's ok oz, I want to see how this turns out
[16:02:17] [Hades @ 1]: they all owe their lives to everquest
[16:02:20] [St_Arc @ 1]: no need for u to get involved
[16:02:20] [Ozmondius @ 1]: bleh
[16:02:24] [shultZ @ 1]: everquest was first  : P
[16:02:30] [Salt @ 1]: then ban him in EL, whats OL got to do with it, this sets such a bad precident
[16:02:31] [Ozmondius @ 1]: lol shultz
[16:02:48] [Learner @ 1]: I feel it reflacts badly on OL
[16:02:52] [Hades @ 1]: no but really, st_a is a douche lol, a troll if you may, but no reason to ban him for something he done in EL, at least not without warning
[16:02:56] [shultZ @ 1]: Everquest was shiity anyways :< just give credit to wow  : P
[16:03:10] You started to harvest Lilacs.
[16:03:20] [St_Arc @ 1]: it reflects badly on OL because I play OL?
[16:03:30] [Learner @ 1]: I'm not reacting to a simple rule breaking, I'm reacting to someone continuing to break rules specifically to cause problems
[16:03:43] [shultZ @ 1]: But you dont ban people for being a douche, you warn them tell them to stop being a dick or such and such would happen
[16:03:43] [Kaddy @ 1]: Cause problems in EL
[16:03:52] [Learner @ 1]: I dont like the idea of OL players causing trouble in EL on purpose
[16:03:55] [St_Arc @ 1]: IE if I go piss on a garden gnome in a privately owned property I also reflect badly on OL?
[16:04:04] [Marked @ 1]: i am with you Learner 
[16:04:05] [Frytka @ 1]: yes;/
[16:04:13] [Kaddy @ 1]: Started asslicking already Newhope?
[16:04:20] [Kaddy @ 1]: So sounds like you.
[16:04:21] [Marked @ 1]: yes ofc kaddy
[16:04:21] [Ozmondius @ 1]: what if i tell radu he's being a douche, when it's the truth?  does that reflect poorly here?
[16:04:23] [St_Arc @ 1]: dude it's fine, just stipulate why u banned me, and go make a thread
[16:04:25] [Aisy @ 1]: You are trying to take advantage, st_Arc
[16:04:32] [St_Arc @ 1]: advantage of what?
[16:04:53] [St_Arc @ 1]: speak up woman
[16:04:53] [Aisy @ 1]: of the fact that the whole thing WILL leave a bad taste in people's mouths
[16:05:00] [St_Arc @ 1]: rly?
[16:05:03] Too heavy, you are overloaded.
[16:05:03] You stopped harvesting.
[16:05:03] [Aisy @ 1]: yes
[16:05:04] [St_Arc @ 1]: I tried to ruin OL
[16:05:09] [Salt @ 1]: they are diff games, with different rules (i could get link to OL rules...), drawing this connection is so dangerous
[16:05:11] [St_Arc @ 1]: after spending weeks trying to promote it?
[16:05:13] [Aisy @ 1]: is that what I said?
[16:05:23] [Hades @ 1]: ...
[16:05:25] [Hades @ 1]: aisy wtf?
[16:05:27] [Aisy @ 1]: When will you EVER learn to read what is said and not try to extrapolate?
[16:05:34] [Hades @ 1]: extrapolate, rofl
[16:05:36] [St_Arc @ 1]: lmao
[16:05:42] [Kaddy @ 1]: Just doesn't make sense when Learner says "don't take your shit from EL" then takes shit from EL.
[16:05:49] [Hades @ 1]: aisy tbh you are the one with selective reading
[16:05:54] [Frytka @ 1]: *goes for more popcorn*
[16:05:57] [Frytka @ 1]: afk : P
[16:06:07] [St_Arc @ 1]: meh careful hades
[16:06:13] [St_Arc @ 1]: they might ban u in el for that
[16:06:17] [Hades @ 1]: lol?
[16:06:19] [Aisy @ 1]: oh wow aren't you witty
[16:06:21] [Hades @ 1]: they donno who i am  : O
[16:06:26] [St_Arc @ 1]: cos we are accountable for our actions in both games
[16:06:28] [Salt @ 1]: np ill tell her who you are  : P
[16:06:29] [Kaddy @ 1]: I do.  : P
[16:06:30] [Nightmare @ 1]: same connection whether u like it or not, aisy
[16:06:31] [Marked @ 1]: what a fuck you all cry about? "omfg i cant login to el and say "HI BURN" 20 lines spam?
[16:06:41] [Marked @ 1]: cant play OL w/o that?
[16:06:41] [St_Arc @ 1]: I don't care about EL NH
[16:06:43] [Marked @ 1]: maroons
[16:06:47] [St_Arc @ 1]: they can't keep me banned anyway
[16:06:54] [Marked @ 1]: i know st
[16:06:56] [Hades @ 1]: no but rly, why doesnt burn leave moderation team so he can leave channel 6, lol
[16:06:56] [St_Arc @ 1]: I'm wondering why what I do in EL matters here
[16:07:03] [Learner @ 1]: If you dont care about EL, then just leave it alone!!!!
[16:07:10] [Salt @ 1]: learner should have left moderating of st_ on EL to another mod
[16:07:12] [Marked @ 1]: just tell me why to do that ? you dont play it what point of that ?
[16:07:22] [Aman @ 1]: you jump to 'wtf lol u idiot' over ANYTHING. you ARE a troublemaker i would vote yes for your ban just for that
[16:07:25] [Aisy @ 1]: why is that your concern?
[16:07:36] [Aisy @ 1]: and who are you to tell learner where to moderate?  : O
[16:07:38] [Salt @ 1]: oh wait, we can all get EL banned for this, we are discussing moderation in public
[16:07:44] [Hades @ 1]: do people on EL even know st_arcane plays here? lol
[16:07:48] [Marked @ 1]: with breaking rules in THAT way you did you just take moderators time, and learner is one of mods ther so you steal our updates here
[16:07:53] [Hades @ 1]: learner isnt accountable for his player's actions
[16:08:00] [St_Arc @ 1]: rly marked? rofl
[16:08:01] [Marked @ 1]: instead of just having a nice game here w/o thous shits which are totaly pointless
[16:08:14] [Marked @ 1]: thats how i look at it, or how i "ass lick" 
[16:08:19] [Aisy @ 1]: RESPECT for learner. Full stop.
[16:08:33] [Aisy @ 1]: and if you can't see that, you are beyond help.
[16:08:35] [DaBraT @ 1]: aretha franklin <3
[16:08:37] [St_Arc @ 1]: well u know what, I actually care about OL to leave here and let it be sorted out on forum
[16:08:40] [Learner @ 1]: all I ask is that my players dont try to abuse EL
[16:08:52] [St_Arc @ 1]: I won't make a scene, I look forward to seeing the result of this
[16:08:55] [St_Arc @ 1]: ciao
[16:09:00] [Aisy @ 1]: little late for THAT concern
[16:09:00] [Marked @ 1]: or do it in more nice way ;)
[16:09:27] You are too far away! Get closer!
[16:09:34] [Marked @ 1]: i am preaty well pissing off all EL w/o breaking rules, yes mr Aisy ?  : ) 
[16:10:01] [DaBraT @ 1]: you think too highly of yourself, you really aren't  : P
[16:10:02] [Aisy @ 1]: mostly yes
[16:10:13] [Marked @ 1]: or well i am asslicking radu's ass as kaddy noted, coz drop pk is ass lick for him
[16:10:22] You started to harvest Lilacs.
[16:10:30] [shultZ @ 1]: The power strugle salt #1
[16:10:44] [Marked @ 1]: i dont think hight about me DaBraT  : ) i know who i am and what i do, there is much more ppls who do or can do things way better than me
[16:10:45] [Learner @ 1]: I wont take actions for most things people do in EL, but purposeful repeated abuse is uncalled for, doesn't matter if it's EL or OL.
[16:10:52] [Dugur @ 1]: let's leave it now. main point respect learner for his efforts not the godliness and if he asks for no trouble on the other side then we can tone it down ther
[16:11:18] [Learner @ 1]: no back to where we were on KF drops ....


#3 Aislinn

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 03:01 PM

Quote

Honestly I am not trying to be difficult,

Really?  So Learner opens up OL.  People currently and previously banned in EL, or who had issues there of one sort or another,  were made welcome here and listened to and everyone was getting along for the most part, not counting passionate debates over game mechanics.  Everyone was starting with a clean slate here.  Former mods and former troublemakers all playing together and helping each other and getting along!  And Learner making changes as we ask for them and discuss them.  

And how do you repay him?  By going back over there and doing more of the same CRAP?  Not trying to be difficuIt?
I don't care what your imagined injustices are, none of them warrant this total disregard and lack of respect for somebody who really took you in in spite of everything.  Your behavior is what is fkn bs.

Juvenile behavior much?  My 13 year old daughter is more mature than this and has been for years.

#4 St_ArcaNe

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 03:12 PM

/yawn, go take your trolling somewhere else aislinn, I don't care about your frustrations or your inability to deal with them

my 2yr old dog has more common sense than you

#5 Ena

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 03:18 PM

Okay, I don't want to start a flame war, or even reply if someone replies to this, because i CBA fighting over opinions.

OL, was made that the community decides who gets banned, and not be an impulse thing for Learner if something goes to shits on EL.
I understand how for Learner it is a conflict of interest, but since a lot of us were 'naughty troublemakers' on EL, we shouldn't pay the consquences on a game where we act like normal human beings.
I'm banned on EL, and I'd be pretty pissed if I had been playing both at the same time, AND i got banned on OL for something I did on EL.
For me they're two different games, because of two different rule systems.  

If the game is supposed to be independent and we get reminded on a hourly basis that it isn't EL, don't treat the community as if it were.

I'm not gonna bother playing a copy of EL, if Learner becomes bad bad man...because who am i kidding? I could've apologized for my actions, accepted the consequences and been playing EL if i really cared.  Or changed my ISP, taken on a new persona, blah blah...but EL's just not worth it...because for everything you do, you're in a tight noose by the moderation team.  Yes, you guys get a lot of problems, but you're also quick to banhammer, and then throw rules at people after and you all stick together for each other.

That's just my 2 cents.  If a game is going to be decided by a community, then it gets to be.

#6 groomsh

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 03:30 PM

View PostEna, on 04 October 2012 - 03:18 PM, said:

OL, was made that the community decides who gets banned, and not be an impulse thing for Learner if something goes to shits on EL.
In general i agree with you, BUT there is one thing that is bothering me.
St_Arcane (in my opinion) did it only because he has somewhere else to play and hang around with people he did on EL.
If OL was not here and he could not play it, he would just forget about EL (using your words, he couldn't be arsed to do it). I might be wrong, but this is how i see it and that is the thing that is totaly wrong.

#7 Ena

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 03:36 PM

I'm not justifying it's cool for players to do bad stuff in EL, but their consequences should be dealt with there, not here.

Edit: on to in

#8 groomsh

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 03:45 PM

Well i think that nothing is black or white ... What matters is the intent with which he did it.
I completely support Learner in what he did (oh yes yes i am a mod on EL - just noted before somebody else comes up with stupid comments).

#9 Aislinn

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 03:46 PM

Generally I agree with you too, Ena.  Obviously.  As I pointed out, mods from there ("former mods") and troublemakers of some sort from there (troublemakers in EL terms) have been peacefully co-existing HERE all as regular players with a clean start.  Nobody was looking for trouble and I for one have been happy to be out of all that.

But this was just a blatant pushing, testing, and abuse of that exact freedom used to test Learner and ultimately make trouble for him.  It was rude and disrespectful because he KNOWS exactly the expectations and limitations based on that.

#10 Ena

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 03:47 PM

Okay, I'll use the same example I used on Learner.

Lets say I pissed off a coworker at my job, and my job took no disciplinary measures...but when I got to school, they decided to expell me for my actions.

It just doesn't feel right *shakes gnome fist for justice*

#11 St_ArcaNe

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 03:58 PM

View PostAislinn, on 04 October 2012 - 03:46 PM, said:

Generally I agree with you too, Ena.  Obviously.  As I pointed out, mods from there ("former mods") and troublemakers of some sort from there (troublemakers in EL terms) have been peacefully co-existing HERE all as regular players with a clean start.  Nobody was looking for trouble and I for one have been happy to be out of all that.

But this was just a blatant pushing, testing, and abuse of that exact freedom used to test Learner and ultimately make trouble for him.  It was rude and disrespectful because he KNOWS exactly the expectations and limitations based on that.
Do you suffer from paranoia or something? or has your mind become so twisted in the pursuit of prosecuting people that you just HAVE to look for hidden meanings in things while overlooking the stupidly obvious?

#12 groomsh

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 04:02 PM

View PostSt_ArcaNe, on 04 October 2012 - 03:58 PM, said:

Do you suffer from paranoia or something? or has your mind become so twisted in the pursuit of prosecuting people that you just HAVE to look for hidden meanings in things while overlooking the stupidly obvious?
Would you mind then stating the obvious, so we don't have to speculate ?
Why did you do that ? ;)

#13 Aislinn

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 04:04 PM

Ok fine. The stupidly obvious is you are just stupid and mean and didn't think 1 second beyond your personal vindictive instant gratification, no matter who it hurts.

#14 PandemiC

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 04:07 PM

We all had a lengthy discussion (those who attended the move from @1 - @6 for the 'hot topic')

I'll spare you many details but myself and Salt also had a private discussion and I was trying to find the best analogy to let people see what position you put Learner in both being a (ex?)-DEV of EL, and the owner and DEV of OL - and was unsuccessful because it IS a hard position

I supported Learner in his choice to ban you. I believe it WAS too harsh, and it didn't follow the constraints he originally let out - i.e. Let the community decide. (but with Learner originally bringing it to attention, and ultimately deciding ?)
Ofcourse there will be mixed opinions, as always.

I think what you did wasn't the smartest of moves. But I think you were online when Learner said he woke up with a headache, and when he was very-much-so busy with the update for OL. Learner IS only human, and I can't answer for him but prehaps it was a spurr of the moment reaction to your what I call stupidity or idiocy on your part and indeed was too harsh.

There are and were many different ways Learner could have dealt with it, just seemed #ban was the easiest with what was going on.

All in all I don't think you should lose faith in OL or Learner, but both parties take it as a steep learning curve to learn that 'just because there isnt a rule for it yet, you're gonna do it anyway.'

My opinion is mixed, I take neither side but I support both.

Just my 2 cents.



EDIT: I don't mean to imply Starcy set out to test Learner, at all.

#15 St_ArcaNe

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 04:12 PM

View Postgroomsh, on 04 October 2012 - 04:02 PM, said:

Would you mind then stating the obvious, so we don't have to speculate ?
Why did you do that ? ;)
ok...

EL moderation is a joke, words cannot describe how poorly you guys handled the burn fiasco and countless other situations. I was banned for saying 'hi burn', as was a multitude of people before me and after me... you wrote it off and called us 'trolls' instead of taking the super-obvious hint that burn's a fkn idiot and nobody likes him being a mod

we did not plan the 'hi burn' craze months ahead of time to try and ruin OL today

I mean come on, in what universe (aside from planet aislinn) would someone plan something so idiotic so far off just to get at learner?

#16 Aislinn

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 04:16 PM

Oh we got the hint that you don't like burn.  But then again you don't like anybody. We'd have no mod team if we removed everybody you don't like on it.  While you may think that a wonderful plan, you and your cronies are the only ones who do.
I can't imagine in what universe you think that by intentionally trolling, we'd remove a mod to suit you?

#17 Nova

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 04:16 PM

really well said pand.  It would have been nice if Learner had maybe muted St_A in EL and explained his position and reasoning instead of banning him in OL.  It would have been nice if St_A hadn't gone into EL and spammed in the first place because he feels like he has another place to go now.  Radu is really easily ticked off, it's just not smart to do something that can be taken as an attack on EL because OL is here now.

Quote

All in all I don't think you should lose faith in OL or Learner, but both parties take it as a steep learning curve to learn that 'just because there isnt a rule for it yet, you're gonna do it anyway.'

+a million right there.


Might as well comment on the EL/Burn thing.  Burn is just a bad choice for a mod.  He doesn't like people, doesn't want to interact with them, he shouldn't have any power over them.

#18 Blackbeard

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 04:17 PM

My faith in OL/Learner was fading before this, and yeah, this kinda shows the problems that were always going to arise with someone who's a mod in EL and the dev for OL.

We're told that OL is separate from EL, we're not allowed to call each other by our EL names, or to mention EL players on ch1 etc. But you can ban people for their EL behaviour? lol

I know I have no chance to persuade Learner, If OL's shown one thing so far it's that he's very stubborn. He's trying to do something very good and admirable here with OL, but this is all a bit of a false democracy, in which the most important decisions are hidden away. However, when OL started he quietly asked me to not spam on EL, I didn't agree with his reasons but nontheless I avoided EL. Why he didn't have a quiet word with st here I rlly don't know

Anyway, I out, I hope OL prospers but I personally don't think that the chance that it will is worth the input/resilience to put up with things like this. Also, Aislinn, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say that you aren't personally trolling/trying to aggravate, but seriously, you're making these forums a horrible place to try to contribute

#19 St_ArcaNe

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 04:18 PM

View PostAislinn, on 04 October 2012 - 04:16 PM, said:

Oh we got the hint that you don't like burn.  But then again you don't like anybody. We'd have no mod team if we removed everybody you don't like on it.  While you may think that a wonderful plan, you and your cronies are the only ones who do.
I can't imagine in what universe you think that by intentionally trolling, we'd remove a mod to suit you?
One where complaints and suggestions fall on deaf ears.

#20 Learner

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 04:24 PM

I also brought it up to the community right away and I don't think I asked for very much to let him back in. Yes, this is a learning curve for everyone.




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