55 replies to this topic

[patriot]

Since there has been a lot of discussion in #GM and PMs and channels about these weapons that Achilles re-worked, I want to propose getting them in-game to the point where they are usable.

There has been some opinions that these are to be rare weapons, "great" weapons, etc. That is not what this re-design was supposed to be. These are supposed to be AFFORDABLE, EASILY REPLACEABLE weapons, that are used situationally. Meaning that fighters may need 2-3 of them when they go face a horde, depending on what they are fighting at any given moment they can switch as needed.

So these should be weapons that not only the top fighters have access to, or someone who happens across joker. I looked at #menu joker and the last 2 decent prizes were vial mold and efe. Sure, sweet prizes from joker no doubt, but could be years before someone finds a new weapon on him. And the 500+ CL bosses can only be killed by a few people, and usually needs a team. So if someone can actually manage to kill Puffy with a halberd, and Puffy doesn't break it...then one person will have a halberd they wont use because it might break...

Here is my proposal on recipes for the added weapons:

Remember: these should be easily replaceable weapons. Weps that we enjoy using because if it breaks we can replace without too much headache.

I pulled some info from Achilles thread on the descriptions of these new weps.


Orc Slayer: High damage weapon, no negs or bonuses
1 Binding Stone
40 Fire Essence
10 Steel Bars
20 Titanium Bars
20 Leather
Manufacture Level: 35

Emerald Claymore: Balanced hit/dodge weapon with low crits
1 Binding Stone
60 Fire Essence
30 Polished Emerald
6 Silver Bars
25 Titanium Bars
Manufacture Level: 30

Cutlass: High hit weapon, but low crit-to-damage
1 Binding Stone
40 Fire Essence
12 Steel Bars
15 Titanium Bars
10 Leather
Manufacture Level: 32

Sunbreaker: High armor piercing, low raw damage and hit/dodge
1 Binding Stone
50 Fire Essence
8 Steel Bars
10 Gold Bars
30 Titanium Bars
Manufacture Level: 34

Eagle Wing: High dodge wep, low raw damage
1 Binding Stone
60 Fire Essence
50 Life Essence
20 Steel Bars
35 Titanium Bars
Manufacture Level: 38

Rapier: High crit-to-hit, low raw damage and hit/dodge
1 Binding Stone
30 Fire Essence
5 Gold Bars
40 Steel Bars
40 Titanium Bars
Manufacture Level: 40

Jagged Saber: Balanced crits, low raw damage and hit/dodge
1 Binding Stone
80 Fire Essence
20 Steel Bars
40 Titanium Bars
Manufacture Level: 42

Halberd: High damage, low hit/dodge and 2-handed so no shield
1 Serpent Stone (I suggest this because this is a fantastic weapon, but suggest the break rate be very low)
1 Quarterstaff
100 Fire Essences
50 Death Essence
50 Steel Bars
70 Titanium Bars
Manufacture Level: 50

Staff of Protection: High dodge, low raw damage. 2-handed so no shield
A Book will need added to this, as was not make-able in EL
1 Enriched Magic Essence
1 Quarterstaff
10 Polished Sapphires
100 Magic Essence
100 Life Essence
50 Silver Bars
Manufacture Level: 55

Spear: High damage, 2-handed so no shield. But added accuracy
1 Serpent Stone (I suggest this because this is also a fantastic weapon, but suggest the break rate be very low)
4 Wood Logs
95 Fire Essence
40 Steel Bars
65 Titanium Bars
Manufacture Level: 49




Will also need to add NPC for selling the books to make these (or add to current NPC)
As well as NPC that can repair the ones that degrade. Could be the same NPC. If he sells the knowledge to make them, perhaps he has some ideas on repairing them!

I suggest a NPC named "Talon" (a super sexy gnome in a Santa hat, obviously), located in RoT...seems like a good place for a weapons seller!



Anyway, those are my ideas. All are pretty reasonable. Please add logical replies, I'd like to see these in-game soon!


Please Please Please remember these are not to be uber rare weapons that you never see around. Everyone should have a chance to enjoy these and not stress out when one is broken or lost. I look forward to your input!

Edited by patriot, 03 December 2019 - 02:22 AM.

[patriot]

Not sure what happened to the title

Should be "Recipes proposal for the New Weapons" if an admin can fix this pls



This got fixed, thank you.

[ohmygod]

Quote

Please Please Please remember these are not to be uber rare weapons that you never see around. Everyone should have a chance to enjoy these and not stress out when one is broken or lost. I look forward to your input!

Agreed

Also like the use of binding stones is the recipe aas they are not really used for much in game cept GHPs, and ele sword uses are a waste due to their low stats for use in combat

[PandemiC]

I completely agree that it needs a rework.

I'd love the manu skill to be more than burning helms in school, which is what it is currently.

Even being strict and only introducing say the Orc slayer & Cutlass for now (High dmg, low accu vs low dmg high accu), then the other swords can be tweaked around that.

[EatsAllLife]

I also agree as the other two have stated. Currently, manufacturing is a skill that is basically looked over, and adding these in there may actually make it into something.
Everything else in the game is in an abundance, and these being drop only will only prove the same results as the elemental swords being *practically* drop only (since ya know, to make them we gotta find books more rare than the swords themselves... ) Which, do we really wish to replicate that? I do not.

I'd be even willing to see these recipes come in the same way, just not only one drop per year preferably. But currently keeping these as a drop only, makes them a trophy item just like the 3 elemental swords in my storage and the multiple other players with them gathering dust since they are 1) useless currently, 2) so rare people are scared to lose them at all.

Basically, I'm saying to not allow the introduction of great swords be another major let down as the ele swords have been.

[DueCE]

Thanks Talon for your initiative in proposing these recipes.  I suggest raising the recommended levels by 6-8 each (so the easiest weapon to craft is the cutlass at recommenced level 38, halbert Rec 58).  I think this would be a bit more in line with the recommended levels for high-end crafting (MoL, MoM).  I might also suggest leaving the 2h weapons as drop/joker only for now as they are probably the most sought after.

As for the recipes, I like the use of a binding stone but when you compare the recipes with that of a serp sword, there needs more balance.  What about a binding stone and a seridium bar for the base cost?  This would create more of a market for seridium (matter congos and Earth Ess) and slightly increase the market price for the greatswords.

[Warlock]

Would agree theyre a bit too cheap atm, i think duece is right with the Seridium bar addition

[ohmygod]

post up your suggested changes to formulas , we can then vote on the ones being suggested, and hopefully not have them sit unimplemented for next 3 years

[Learner]

It would help if there was an estimated cost to make included as well.

[patriot]

Learner, on 04 December 2019 - 04:20 AM, said:

It would help if there was an estimated cost to make included as well.

I think it is hard to state a cost, because bindings are dirt cheap right now because not to many uses. But with the swords added the bindings will go up who knows how high?

[Bat17]

We are putting the cart before the horse. First decide on a price for each weapon then we can come up with recipes to match.

I am not in favour of using Binding stones as they have an artificial scarcity that will control the availability of the weapons as well as the price.
My best guess is that they will jump in price to 20k to 50k each and be the dominating factor in price.
I would rather go the Seridium/Bronze/Wolfram/Dvarium route to make it possible to do guild projects to make these weapons for members. If that sounds to much like EL we can always rename the bars to make them fit our new folklore better.
This approach will also give an opportunity to use up some of the drops that are currently worthless too.

So, I am happy to try to come up with costed recipes for the weapons but I need a price to aim for!

Bat17

[Learner]

patriot, on 04 December 2019 - 12:49 PM, said:

Learner, on 04 December 2019 - 04:20 AM, said:

It would help if there was an estimated cost to make included as well.

I think it is hard to state a cost, because bindings are dirt cheap right now because not to many uses. But with the swords added the bindings will go up who knows how high?

I'm not saying to define the price, but for now we at least need to estimate the cost of the ings. Now if people want to be suggesting prices to aim for, that can help as well. Yes, I realize the cost may change based on demand.

[patriot]

I prefer without bindings also, but I highly doubt they'll get approved without some rare ings.. Why, I have no idea. Boggles my mind why peeps want these weps to be so rare and expensive. Also remember that dvarium and wolfram bars currently require serpent stones. If we go to the bars route we need to readjust those recipes, which is fine. And add bronze, dvarium, wolframite to the game.

Learner, on 04 December 2019 - 02:03 PM, said:

patriot, on 04 December 2019 - 12:49 PM, said:

Learner, on 04 December 2019 - 04:20 AM, said:

It would help if there was an estimated cost to make included as well.

I think it is hard to state a cost, because bindings are dirt cheap right now because not to many uses. But with the swords added the bindings will go up who knows how high?

I'm not saying to define the price, but for now we at least need to estimate the cost of the ings. Now if people want to be suggesting prices to aim for, that can help as well. Yes, I realize the cost may change based on demand.

I'll work on something regarding this tonight when I'm off work

[Learner]

Rare ings is a way to help raise the price while also reduce that everyone and their alt will use Great Swords. After all, the swords should cost more to make the Serpents.

[patriot]

I disagree, the weapons should be easier to get than serpents. Right now it's hard to get a serpent for the casual player at least. The idea with the new weapons, at least my understanding of it while talking to Achilles, is that they're to be a more available option. They're designed to be situational so that there isn't just 1 or 2 best weapons. If they're situational and every fighter should have a few then making them more expensive than serps is rediculous!

[Learner]

patriot, on 04 December 2019 - 05:44 PM, said:

I disagree, the weapons should be easier to get than serpents. Right now it's hard to get a serpent for the casual player at least. The idea with the new weapons, at least my understanding of it while talking to Achilles, is that they're to be a more available option. They're designed to be situational so that there isn't just 1 or 2 best weapons. If they're situational and every fighter should have a few then making them more expensive than serps is rediculous!

They should be as expensive or more expensive then Serps, not less expensive. Will be interesting to see where things settle!

Look at the chart at https://www.other-li...pon/#entry22177 and that shows all Great Swords are intended to be close to or better then Serpents. So, that should be taken into account in setting their expense in making. Yes, it's hard to get a Serp, but that doesn't mean it should be easier to get a Great Sword!

PS Part of the reason getting a Serp is hard is also due to the small player base as well. That's a different issue and we should not cheapen getting the items because of that.

[SimAnt]

Learner, on 04 December 2019 - 05:48 PM, said:

PS Part of the reason getting a Serp is hard is also due to the small player base as well. That's a different issue and we should not cheapen getting the items because of that.

No one is gonna be happy if these weapons are as rare as serp swords are now. People are willing to spend the time to gather base ingredients. I'd rather go the route of making bars of different levels like suggested by Bat17 to set the price than RNG finding rare materials.

[patriot]

A serpent is probably around 60k if you can actually manage to find one for sale. And these situational weapons require you to need 2-3 at least, that means that each fighter has to go into battle with 180k worth in weapons alone, plus 50k in armor, and capes anywhere up to 200k...so half million in gear to fight some horde that might net you 10k maybe... And the second you break anything you are instantly in the red. Come on this is horrible logic

[ohmygod]

Quote

We are putting the cart before the horse. First decide on a price for each weapon then we can come up with recipes to match.

Quote

No one is gonna be happy if these weapons are as rare as serp swords are now. People are willing to spend the time to gather base ingredients. I'd rather go the route of making bars of different levels like suggested by Bat17 to set the price than RNG finding rare materials.

Agreed with both simant and Bat17and have changed my mind on the binding/serp stone requirement.

I also think an NPC price for buying/selling the weapons needs to be set, this will allow us to work backwards on the cost of ings to mix them.

Example only!.. IF NPC price Orc Slayer =  BUY (from NPC) 70kgc SELL (to NPC) 35kgc

THEN I reckon the actual INGS pricing should sit between  the buy and sell pricing, AND not rely solely on rare drop ONLY ings in its production.

Those players that have participated in more than 50 or so days of invasion know that their storage's have an over abundance of the not so rare mob drops which are also readily craftable/manuable/alchable(?) items in game.

How do we reduce this overabundance of makable mob drops in our storage's AND make them more valuable as a drop in the months/years to come?

I point to the way Gatherer medallions have an impact on reducing the number of available mob dropped Moon medallons, Matter congloms, silver medallions, polished saphires and seridium bars the common fighter has in their storage..

How does the Gatherer have an impact on these items?
Lets take a look at the gatherer medallion ings which consist of the following items:
10 moon medallions
1 seridium bar
10 turqoise
10 Fire Ess
30 Henbanes

How these items/ings get in game so they can be used to craft Gatherers?
Moon meds are craft-able + also a Mob drop (I have had heaps drop but have been able to sell these on to crafters along with silver meds and gems)
Seridium Bar - Requires matter conglom to obtain the ore, Matter congloms are a drop + alchable. Note: also Seridum bars drop from mobs as rares (RD only?) and both matter congloms and bars sell fast to crafters even though they are both fully alch-able
Turquoise = harvest-able item
Fire ess = Alchable item use for most other craftable/manuable items, not sure if these are a drop but a by product of grinding for EFEs for certain.

This is just an example  where 1)rarish mob drops have a market for fighters but also 2) where a mixer can mix the items to send to market without solely relying on rare drops to produce the more higher end item in a more round about route.

I suggest that we look at the not so rare mob dropable items in game and have them included some how in to a formula for each of the swords.

Getting back to the start of my post IF NPC sells Orc Slayer for 70kgc and buys for 35kgc ings and cost needs to be between that, it might work out to be. (EXAMPLE ONLY):

Orc Slayer: High damage weapon, no negs or bonuses
1 Binding Stone 50 Stars medallions (350gc *50 = 17500gc)
40 Fire Essence (3gc* 40 ess = 1200gc)
10 Steel Bars (45gc *10 bars = 350gc)
20 Titanium Bars (20gc *20bars = 400gc)
20 Leather  (5gc * 20leather = 100gc)
ADD 3 Seridium bar (7000kgc*3 bars =21000gc)
Manufacture Level: 35

Total ings cost to make = 40550gc

NOTE: I am making up these costs as not sure what market (or mixing) prices for the items are along with the BUY SELL NPC price and have just added on to Talons ings list which is still under discussion, and plucked out of the air the stars medallion to give an example of mob drop (but also mixable) item that could be swapped out with the drop/harvest only binding stone in this one recipe/ings list***

ADDED you could also swap out the steel and tit bars and replace with steel longs/tit shorts Role play could be the metal in the completed swords are better quality after they are made and remelted , market wise it would open these mob drop swords as a saleable item among players other than selling to trik/other npc. Over time and as they become harder for mixers to buy these as drops from players they can be mixed with more effort by the mixer.

I also suggest we break each of the swords up into their own topic to make discussion easier and to get agreement on each one.

[ohmygod]

Quote

They should be as expensive or more expensive then Serps, not less expensive. Will be interesting to see where things settle!

Sorry for double post I didnt want to include this reply in previous post and muddy  it up.

60kgc is 300's guild price for tit serps not sure what other guild prices are.

PS... I get serp stones, EFEs and enrichment stones for FREE as drops off hordes and attached bosses and my guildie mixes them into serp swords. This means technically i get my serp swords for free...... Which is different to being uber rare and hoarded item... also note i have spent no more than a few hours total clearing hordes without a serp sword equipped in equipment slot over the past two years ..