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#1 skullpants

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Posted 23 April 2021 - 10:53 AM

Has anyone other than me noticed that the OL economy seems to be in a very severe recession, if not an outright depression? In order for any economy to be vibrant, real or virtual, its currency should constantly be circulating throughout the population. When the currency does not circulate properly it just sits in some player's inventory instead of being used to purchase items this player might need to enhance his character. Why does the wealthy player not spend his gold coin? As for myself, my gold accumulates faster than i can spend it mainly because of the lack of diversity of in game readily available items. There simply are very few end game items to buy so i invest in raw materials that i mix into mid level items to sell and i just gain more wealth that sits stagnant in my inventory. To further the problem there are very few players willing to sell items like serp stones and serp swords for gold because the items are somewhat rare and gold is not. If i have more gold than i can spend and I am unable to easily buy serp stones with gold, why would I be willing to sell serp swords for gold? The problem is that serps have a value and gold does not have a value because there is so little that it can be used to purchase.

The problem is that there is a severe lack of diversity in end game items. Achillies had a great idea with the concept of the Great Swords. He wanted weapons to be like golf clubs in a golf bag. Different tools for different situations was the idea. Great Swords were not meant to be the next new best weapon. They were meant to be situational choices.  Unfortunately when the great swords were implemented they were not mixable items so they did not become tools that every player could acquire. Instead the very few that have dropped in game sit stagnant in some players inventory or sit as trophies on a merchant at a price that only a few players who have no interest in them at all could even afford. Had they been implemented as a high end mixable item that required a certain amount of skills and abilities to mix, supply and demand would have given them a value that would have made them attainable by any serious fighter. Also I must mention that some of the Great Swords degrade to a used or pre owned state and there is currently no way to even attempt to repair them. Why is this? If it cannot be repaired it should not degrade, it should just break.

Where is our situational armor choices? Sure you get some magic protection from iron armors, but that is only one situation. Why not armors that give some protection from poisoning, or cooldowns, or mirror attack, or limited crit damage or anything else situational for that matter?

Well we do have the ability to mix the enchanted fire, ice, magic, and thermal swords. The problem with these is that to mix them they require multiple serp stones even though some have only slightly better stats that the serp sword that only requires one serp stone. Many on the lower end give worse stats than the mighty serp sword yet they require more than one stone to mix. Don't look for these to be available to the average player until modables and serp stones start falling out of the trees. Since that is unlikely to happen I will use my serp stones to mix serp swords so enchanted swords might as well be drop only. They also will sit stagnant, unavailable to the average player just like the Great Swords.

THIS GAME COULD BE SO MUCH BETTER!!!

#2 Zian

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Posted 23 April 2021 - 04:24 PM

View Postskullpants, on 23 April 2021 - 10:53 AM, said:

Has anyone other than me noticed that the OL economy seems to be in a very severe recession, if not an outright depression. In order for any economy to be vibrant, real or virtual, its currency should constantly be circulating throughout the population. When the currency does not circulate properly it just sits in some player's inventory instead of being used to purchase items this player might need to enhance his character. Why does the wealthy player not spend his gold coin? As for myself, my gold accumulates faster than i can spend it mainly because of the lack of diversity of in game readily available items. There simply are very few end game items to buy so i invest in raw materials that i mix into mid level items to sell and i just gain more wealth that sits stagnant in my inventory. To further the problem there are very few players willing to sell items like serp stones and serp swords for gold because the items are somewhat rare and gold is not. If i have more gold than i can spend and I am unable to easily buy serp stones with gold, why would I be willing to sell serp swords for gold? The problem is that serps have a value and gold does not have a value because there is so little that it can be used to purchase.

The problem is that there is a severe lack of diversity in end game items. Achillies had a great idea with the concept of the Great Swords. He wanted weapons to be like golf clubs in a golf bag. Different tools for different situations was the idea. Great Swords were not meant to be the next new best weapon. They were meant to be situational choices.  Unfortunately when the great swords were implemented they were not mixable items so they did not become tools that every player could acquire. Instead the very few that have dropped in game sit stagnant in some players inventory or sit as trophies on a merchant at a price that only a few players who have no interest in them at all could even afford. Had they been implemented as a high end mixable item that required a certain amount of skills and abilities to mix, supply and demand would have given them a value that would have made them attainable by any serious fighter. Also I must mention that some of the Great Swords degrade to a used or pre owned state and there is currently no way to even attempt to repair them. Why is this? If it cannot be repaired it should not degrade, it should just break.

Where is our situational armor choices? Sure you get some magic protection from iron armors, but that is only one situation. Why not armors that give some protection from poisoning, or cooldowns, or mirror attack, or limited crit damage or anything else situational for that matter?

Well we do have the ability to mix the enchanted fire, ice, magic, and thermal swords. The problem with these is that to mix them they require multiple serp stones even though some have only slightly better stats that the serp sword that only requires one serp stone. Many on the lower end give worse stats than the mighty serp sword yet they require more than one stone to mix. Don't look for these to be available to the average player until modables and serp stones start falling out of the trees. Since that is unlikely to happen I will use my serp stones to mix serp swords so enchanted swords might as well be drop only. They also will sit stagnant, unavailable to the average player just like the Great Swords.

THIS GAME COULD BE SO MUCH BETTER!!!

You mention many items contributing to '...OL economy seems to be in a very severe recession, if not an outright depression.' !

I don't see your analysis that shows examples supporting your conclusion. I'm not an economist :)

However:  

The value of GCs seem to have a real value. I've seen Plat prices range from 6,500-8,500 gcs (buyers/sellers).

Do I spend GCs in game?

Firstly -
I'm a consumer not a mixer. I do buy finished products.
I'm a fighter not a mixer. I don't harvest or buy INGs.
I dont buy GCs/Plats in game but use them to buy items.

I would consider Z to be 'wealthy' (subjectively speaking). I buy 'stuff' after every weekend Invasion. Having too many GCs sitting in storage isn't desirable, I do keep a minimum amount so I can buy items for storage when the opportunity comes up.

Of course I'd like to see more higher level items in the market but some guild NPC prices seem very high which implies, not a recession but inflation/demand (more buyers than sellers). Very confusing :(

Not sure how to 'fix' OL's economy other than letting the market determine it.

Regards
Z

#3 skullpants

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Posted 23 April 2021 - 07:51 PM

Supply and demand will determine prices. Some items on merchants are not intended to sell. Placing those items there with unrealistic prices is a way to display war trophies, however I can think of at least one example of such an item being bought by a player who had a surplus of gold on hand at the time.

I myself have bought quite a few plats from a guild merchant at the price of 10k each. I don't mind paying a premium price for these items because I enjoy that they are available when I need them. Does this mean that the new price of plats is 10k?
Of course not. The price of plats is whatever you can negotiate a deal for from a seller. However it might be more difficult to find a seller for 6500 if he thinks he might be able to get 10k for them. Prices rise and fall based on supply and demand. If more players are willing to pay 10k per plat it might lead to sellers being unwilling to sell them for less. One certain way to make the price of plats to fall to a historic low would be to make them a mixable item. Yes, in reality this could never happen but the point is that when there is a manufactured supply, prices will drop to a level that the market is willing to pay.

#4 EatsAllLife

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Posted 23 April 2021 - 07:59 PM

View Postskullpants, on 23 April 2021 - 10:53 AM, said:

Has anyone other than me noticed that the OL economy seems to be in a very severe recession, if not an outright depression. In order for any economy to be vibrant, real or virtual, its currency should constantly be circulating throughout the population. When the currency does not circulate properly it just sits in some player's inventory instead of being used to purchase items this player might need to enhance his character. Why does the wealthy player not spend his gold coin? As for myself, my gold accumulates faster than i can spend it mainly because of the lack of diversity of in game readily available items. There simply are very few end game items to buy so i invest in raw materials that i mix into mid level items to sell and i just gain more wealth that sits stagnant in my inventory. To further the problem there are very few players willing to sell items like serp stones and serp swords for gold because the items are somewhat rare and gold is not. If i have more gold than i can spend and I am unable to easily buy serp stones with gold, why would I be willing to sell serp swords for gold? The problem is that serps have a value and gold does not have a value because there is so little that it can be used to purchase.

The problem is that there is a severe lack of diversity in end game items. Achillies had a great idea with the concept of the Great Swords. He wanted weapons to be like golf clubs in a golf bag. Different tools for different situations was the idea. Great Swords were not meant to be the next new best weapon. They were meant to be situational choices.  Unfortunately when the great swords were implemented they were not mixable items so they did not become tools that every player could acquire. Instead the very few that have dropped in game sit stagnant in some players inventory or sit as trophies on a merchant at a price that only a few players who have no interest in them at all could even afford. Had they been implemented as a high end mixable item that required a certain amount of skills and abilities to mix, supply and demand would have given them a value that would have made them attainable by any serious fighter. Also I must mention that some of the Great Swords degrade to a used or pre owned state and there is currently no way to even attempt to repair them. Why is this? If it cannot be repaired it should not degrade, it should just break.

Where is our situational armor choices? Sure you get some magic protection from iron armors, but that is only one situation. Why not armors that give some protection from poisoning, or cooldowns, or mirror attack, or limited crit damage or anything else situational for that matter?

Well we do have the ability to mix the enchanted fire, ice, magic, and thermal swords. The problem with these is that to mix them they require multiple serp stones even though some have only slightly better stats that the serp sword that only requires one serp stone. Many on the lower end give worse stats than the mighty serp sword yet they require more than one stone to mix. Don't look for these to be available to the average player until modables and serp stones start falling out of the trees. Since that is unlikely to happen I will use my serp stones to mix serp swords so enchanted swords might as well be drop only. They also will sit stagnant, unavailable to the average player just like the Great Swords.

THIS GAME COULD BE SO MUCH BETTER!!!

The problem stems from greed. You know what happened when I tried to get Scientist's Day back in game, people were afraid their knowledge would be useless and more rares would pour into game...
Until you fix the greed on rares we won't be going anywhere with this economy.

#5 ohmygod

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Posted 24 April 2021 - 01:25 AM

When one of the quietest (and most hard core) players in game that I know, takes the time to write a fairly big post about his concerns with the game and how it affects his future enjoyment of it, i get worried we may lose another player to the current apathy taken by developers towards players. It seems more attention and thought from developers goes towards how to keep the mobs safe from the ebul players, who have the cheek to want to play the game .

@ Zian you paid 1 mill gc for a great sword dont tell me you dont have more GC than cents (sense). Skull already said that the over priced items on 300 NPC at least are just for looks, and why not? they are ultra ultra rare and look sexy on the npc's items list Posted Image

Quote

Not sure how to 'fix' OL's economy other than letting the market determine it.

How stupid is this comment at this point in time when the only thing being sold in any consistent numbers is diss rings BRs and SRs maybe efes and all the other things that are "guaranteed as obtainable" in game with a bit of time and effort, and have been in game since day dot...not the new unnecessarily excessively ultra rare items/ingredients that are trickle fed into game via uber mob/mob drops.

Quote

THIS GAME COULD BE SO MUCH BETTER!!!

Come on now, time to listen to players that actually want to  play the game... live up to the statement that drew me to this game many many many years ago "Other-Life is a community based game that allows you to affect the future of the game."Posted Image Or was this in reality just fake news?

ADDED: Waiting for down vote on my post from aine for not posting enough hearts and smiley faces here...... Posted Image

#6 skullpants

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Posted 24 April 2021 - 08:23 AM

View PostEatsAllLife, on 23 April 2021 - 07:59 PM, said:

View Postskullpants, on 23 April 2021 - 10:53 AM, said:

Has anyone other than me noticed that the OL economy seems to be in a very severe recession, if not an outright depression. In order for any economy to be vibrant, real or virtual, its currency should constantly be circulating throughout the population. When the currency does not circulate properly it just sits in some player's inventory instead of being used to purchase items this player might need to enhance his character. Why does the wealthy player not spend his gold coin? As for myself, my gold accumulates faster than i can spend it mainly because of the lack of diversity of in game readily available items. There simply are very few end game items to buy so i invest in raw materials that i mix into mid level items to sell and i just gain more wealth that sits stagnant in my inventory. To further the problem there are very few players willing to sell items like serp stones and serp swords for gold because the items are somewhat rare and gold is not. If i have more gold than i can spend and I am unable to easily buy serp stones with gold, why would I be willing to sell serp swords for gold? The problem is that serps have a value and gold does not have a value because there is so little that it can be used to purchase.

The problem is that there is a severe lack of diversity in end game items. Achillies had a great idea with the concept of the Great Swords. He wanted weapons to be like golf clubs in a golf bag. Different tools for different situations was the idea. Great Swords were not meant to be the next new best weapon. They were meant to be situational choices.  Unfortunately when the great swords were implemented they were not mixable items so they did not become tools that every player could acquire. Instead the very few that have dropped in game sit stagnant in some players inventory or sit as trophies on a merchant at a price that only a few players who have no interest in them at all could even afford. Had they been implemented as a high end mixable item that required a certain amount of skills and abilities to mix, supply and demand would have given them a value that would have made them attainable by any serious fighter. Also I must mention that some of the Great Swords degrade to a used or pre owned state and there is currently no way to even attempt to repair them. Why is this? If it cannot be repaired it should not degrade, it should just break.

Where is our situational armor choices? Sure you get some magic protection from iron armors, but that is only one situation. Why not armors that give some protection from poisoning, or cooldowns, or mirror attack, or limited crit damage or anything else situational for that matter?

Well we do have the ability to mix the enchanted fire, ice, magic, and thermal swords. The problem with these is that to mix them they require multiple serp stones even though some have only slightly better stats that the serp sword that only requires one serp stone. Many on the lower end give worse stats than the mighty serp sword yet they require more than one stone to mix. Don't look for these to be available to the average player until modables and serp stones start falling out of the trees. Since that is unlikely to happen I will use my serp stones to mix serp swords so enchanted swords might as well be drop only. They also will sit stagnant, unavailable to the average player just like the Great Swords.

THIS GAME COULD BE SO MUCH BETTER!!!

The problem stems from greed. You know what happened when I tried to get Scientist's Day back in game, people were afraid their knowledge would be useless and more rares would pour into game...
Until you fix the greed on rares we won't be going anywhere with this economy.


Greed is a part of human nature. It is not likely to go away. Greed is the reason a socialist system does not work. People seem to be unwilling to work hard to pool their resources and have everyone, including those who choose not to work hard (or at all) to take an equal share of the rewards of said labor. Yes I believe in capitalism.

Surely you are not suggesting that greed is a valid reason to keep new items out of the game.

#7 EatsAllLife

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Posted 24 April 2021 - 08:33 PM

View Postskullpants, on 24 April 2021 - 08:23 AM, said:

View PostEatsAllLife, on 23 April 2021 - 07:59 PM, said:

View Postskullpants, on 23 April 2021 - 10:53 AM, said:

Has anyone other than me noticed that the OL economy seems to be in a very severe recession, if not an outright depression. In order for any economy to be vibrant, real or virtual, its currency should constantly be circulating throughout the population. When the currency does not circulate properly it just sits in some player's inventory instead of being used to purchase items this player might need to enhance his character. Why does the wealthy player not spend his gold coin? As for myself, my gold accumulates faster than i can spend it mainly because of the lack of diversity of in game readily available items. There simply are very few end game items to buy so i invest in raw materials that i mix into mid level items to sell and i just gain more wealth that sits stagnant in my inventory. To further the problem there are very few players willing to sell items like serp stones and serp swords for gold because the items are somewhat rare and gold is not. If i have more gold than i can spend and I am unable to easily buy serp stones with gold, why would I be willing to sell serp swords for gold? The problem is that serps have a value and gold does not have a value because there is so little that it can be used to purchase.

The problem is that there is a severe lack of diversity in end game items. Achillies had a great idea with the concept of the Great Swords. He wanted weapons to be like golf clubs in a golf bag. Different tools for different situations was the idea. Great Swords were not meant to be the next new best weapon. They were meant to be situational choices.  Unfortunately when the great swords were implemented they were not mixable items so they did not become tools that every player could acquire. Instead the very few that have dropped in game sit stagnant in some players inventory or sit as trophies on a merchant at a price that only a few players who have no interest in them at all could even afford. Had they been implemented as a high end mixable item that required a certain amount of skills and abilities to mix, supply and demand would have given them a value that would have made them attainable by any serious fighter. Also I must mention that some of the Great Swords degrade to a used or pre owned state and there is currently no way to even attempt to repair them. Why is this? If it cannot be repaired it should not degrade, it should just break.

Where is our situational armor choices? Sure you get some magic protection from iron armors, but that is only one situation. Why not armors that give some protection from poisoning, or cooldowns, or mirror attack, or limited crit damage or anything else situational for that matter?

Well we do have the ability to mix the enchanted fire, ice, magic, and thermal swords. The problem with these is that to mix them they require multiple serp stones even though some have only slightly better stats that the serp sword that only requires one serp stone. Many on the lower end give worse stats than the mighty serp sword yet they require more than one stone to mix. Don't look for these to be available to the average player until modables and serp stones start falling out of the trees. Since that is unlikely to happen I will use my serp stones to mix serp swords so enchanted swords might as well be drop only. They also will sit stagnant, unavailable to the average player just like the Great Swords.

THIS GAME COULD BE SO MUCH BETTER!!!

The problem stems from greed. You know what happened when I tried to get Scientist's Day back in game, people were afraid their knowledge would be useless and more rares would pour into game...
Until you fix the greed on rares we won't be going anywhere with this economy.


Greed is a part of human nature. It is not likely to go away. Greed is the reason a socialist system does not work. People seem to be unwilling to work hard to pool their resources and have everyone, including those who choose not to work hard (or at all) to take an equal share of the rewards of said labor. Yes I believe in capitalism.

Surely you are not suggesting that greed is a valid reason to keep new items out of the game.

Surely I am suggesting that, but I don't agree to it. As that was the exact case with that Scientist's day discussion. I tried to get more of these items in game just by the availability of a random day where anything could be mixed without reading. Again as I had stated, players were much against that idea and didn't want the "economy" to be hurt due to it. Tell me how making these actually available rather than in the hands of 2-4 players is gonna hurt our already ruined market.

While greed is a part of human nature, monopolization is not. Perhaps that was more the word I was looking for, as you can have greed by buying everything up on the market, which would mean there would have to have people to sell said things. If people were less worried about who/what could obtain them/bring them into the game, there would be a better market. Uber rares do need to be a lot more obtainable. . While the IM's/L will always claim it is just a "bad roll", why is there only a "good roll" every couple of months, are the parameters for those drops really just that strict?   In the case of the rare drop ingredients such as a serp stone- that would be remedied with more people killing monsters "we" (OL players) kill plenty of mobs over 6-800 CL that drop value that is less than a bonehead at 265 CL. More spawns=more drops, but the lack of players is an entirely different issue in itself... Although I'm sure the depression that is OL economy doesn't keep players around either.

#8 idefix

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Posted 24 April 2021 - 09:28 PM

Let's take a stab at fixing the economy of a dying game.

Of course, if we're being realistic, I hope everyone knows that absolutely nothing will change as a result of this forum thread, but just for the sake of discussion, here's my 2 cents (Canadian dollar cents, of course).

Let's define the metric of a "good/thriving economy" as the amount of gc that is being traded/circulated through the player-base within a given time. For example, if no one is trading anything, the total trades during a week are worth 0 gc, so the market is absolutely dead. But if the total trades during the week would be 100 million gc worth of items, that would be considered great. (This is basically the same definition that skull gave, just phrased differently).

(For this definition to be reasonable, we need to assume zero inflation; otherwise hyper-inflation would be considered the best thing to ever happen to the economy).

---

So how do we improve the economy? Given that the main issue is that there are not many sellers, I can see two ways:
1. By encouraging more trading instead of self-sufficiency.
2. By making gc more "useful", so that players are more interested in selling items to gain gc.

---

For #1, I think we could encourage it by having more of a specialization into mixing, instead of everyone mixing everything.
For example, if I would specialize in potions and I could mix 10k SRs per hour (which is roughly 5x faster than currently), while someone else could mix 10k essences per hour, then it would be more efficient for me to focus my mixing time on potions only, and the 2nd person on essences, and us to trade with each other (and 3rd person on rings, and 4th person .... etc).

Sure, we have nexuses, but most mixers just spend the few extra pp to get all the nexuses (since what else would you spend your pps on as a mixer).
Maybe this could've been achieved with perks, but given that perks are dead, I don't see this being a realistic option.

---

For #2, we could introduce something valuable that high level players can gain with gc.

This is needed, because currently gc is basically useless for high level players. The only thing you can really do with gc is:

a. buy consumables for fighting (essences, potions, etc)
b. buy arrows for ranging (to kill high lvl bosses)
c. buy ings to train other skills (magic, manu, crafting)

I intentionaly exclude things like "Buy plats from other players", because by definition, someone else would be buying plats and selling them for gc, meaning that the player selling plats would want the gc for some of the above.

For a high level fighter, C can be ignored, while A and B are only a fraction of the gc that you earn from RTGs, invasions and cyc training.
So your stockpile of gc will keep growing infinitely as long as you are playing the game, and there is basically nothing you can spend the gc on except buying items from other players (if someone would be willing to sell something).

For a newer player, gc is still pretty useful to train your skills and to buy your first items. But it's not the newer players that get those very rare drops, since they're dropped by high CL bosses.

---

Hypothetically, let's say great swords would be sold by NPC for e.g. 500k each. I think gc would start to be more valued by high level players, and you would actually see great swords being used.
Sure, you might break the sword, but you could always buy a new one.
You could buy all of the great sword, and switch between them depending on the situation to maximize the efficiency.
You might even sell something that's been in your storage for years, just so you get more gc to buy more great swords.

This was just a half-assed idea, but it highlights the point I'm trying to make; I think gc should be somehow useful and have some value, instead of just having millions and millions of gc piling up in your storage that you can't use for anything.

#9 ohmygod

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Posted 24 April 2021 - 11:04 PM

Make GC great again!

I like it :)

How to do it is pretty simple as well. Make NPCs sell what players want to buy, the mixer player types in particular, as we need to get the GC from the fighters to the mixers so they can spend it at the NPC thus removing it from the game.

#10 skullpants

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Posted 25 April 2021 - 05:19 PM

OK, i agree that making Great Swords available for purchase on an NPC would be a great way to get them into the game. L would likely insist on a higher price than 500k, which is fine. It would make a good gold sink. Why not also make them mixable so that the price will be more affordable for the average player?

To Eats... By new items I mean items not currently in the game such as the situational armors i mentioned, not the current drop only items.

#11 Warlock

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Posted 26 April 2021 - 04:34 PM

View Postskullpants, on 23 April 2021 - 10:53 AM, said:

THIS GAME COULD BE SO MUCH BETTER!!!

Hehehe

#12 idefix

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Posted 26 April 2021 - 05:08 PM

View Postskullpants, on 25 April 2021 - 05:19 PM, said:

OK, i agree that making Great Swords available for purchase on an NPC would be a great way to get them into the game. L would likely insist on a higher price than 500k, which is fine. It would make a good gold sink. Why not also make them mixable so that the price will be more affordable for the average player?

To Eats... By new items I mean items not currently in the game such as the situational armors i mentioned, not the current drop only items.

Yep, can make it mixable too. But it's probably mixable by high level manu only, requiring knowledge that is hard to get, and requiring rare items that are hard to get.
So fairly similar to elemental serps.
And I don't think elemental serps did much to the economy.

#13 skullpants

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Posted 26 April 2021 - 06:08 PM

No they didn't, but modables and serp stones are not falling out of the trees yet either.  

Make them difficult to mix, that is fine, but make them mixable. Also make them repairable or just make them break. Hard core mixers love to grind to get the levels needed to mix high end items. As long as the recipe does not cost 4 times what a similar weapon such as the mighty serp sword they will be mixed and put up for sale. Remember the Great Swords were not meant to be the next great weapon above the serp sword. They were meant to be situational choices similar to the serp sword.


Thanks for the thoughtful replies.

#14 EatsAllLife

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Posted 07 May 2021 - 10:41 AM

View Postskullpants, on 26 April 2021 - 06:08 PM, said:

No they didn't, but modables and serp stones are not falling out of the trees yet either.  

Make them difficult to mix, that is fine, but make them mixable. Also make them repairable or just make them break. Hard core mixers love to grind to get the levels needed to mix high end items. As long as the recipe does not cost 4 times what a similar weapon such as the mighty serp sword they will be mixed and put up for sale. Remember the Great Swords were not meant to be the next great weapon above the serp sword. They were meant to be situational choices similar to the serp sword.


Thanks for the thoughtful replies.

Even without the high end cost, leveling manufacturing in itself is a MASSIVE gold sink, but the problem is there isn't enough of a reason to level it. Currently, there are what? 10 total players even over 55? and like 3 or 4 with the levels to mix these high end swords? There needs to be something between these, I'm thinking this is where the greatswords should be, as obviously we know the enchanted serps are currently the highest powered items in the game, techinically speaking, the thermal by 3 base damage. So, with that being said, the best thing that is actually worth leveling manufacturing at this point would be the iron plate, and thats at recommended level 40, with a god boost I only need that to be 'safe' mixing. So that means between the levels of 40-76 there is really nothing to work towards.

Along with crafting, if that could potentially fit any items that may assist the market- leveling this skill higher is also quite the pain, aside from having again nothing between harv medallion at 43, and MoL at 61..It's due to the DRASTIC food bar consumption, I mean seriously. I get 2 dis rings with a full food bar, that takes 1 Feasting pot away, and there is still a cooldown to wait for after the mixes are complete. This is a low level item at crafting 27, yet takes the SAME AMOUNT of food as a level 72 MoM? This can also be seen in manufacturing, but not near as bad. Perhaps fill in these large food gaps as well, or make the end-game mixing have some... dare I say Perks?

#15 skullpants

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Posted 09 May 2021 - 07:41 AM

My current manu level is 74. I harvested the vast majority of the ingredients to level it myself so for me not so much a gold sink as a labor sink. It was however quite a grind and I doubt many players would invest that amount of time in a skill with so little incentive.

I agree that the enchanted swords are the top tier for weaponry. The problem is that with the cost in stones so high it makes more sense to use serp stones to mix serp swords since the lower level enchanted swords appear to be less powerful than the serp sword. It does not make sense to use three or four stones to mix a weapon that is less powerful than another weapon that requires only one stone.

Great swords are indeed the answer. They were designed not to be a better weapon than the serp sword, but instead a situational choice with similar stats to those of the serp sword. The problem is that they are drop only and also very rare drops, so they are hoarded and sit on merchants as trophies. If they were made mixable with costs similar to that of the serp sword they would then become tradable consumables available to most players at a cost they could afford. I do not understand why anyone would oppose the idea of having more high end weapon choices similar to the serp sword. I think the idea of strategic weapon choices is brilliant. They are already a part of the game. Making them mixable will only allow them to become available to the average consumer.

#16 Warlock

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Posted 09 May 2021 - 06:33 PM

Started by Rabbitman, Aug 09 2019 10:36 PM

https://www.other-li...e__hl__achilles

See how long thjat thread has dragged on for, and where we are now

Safe to say, this shit aint happening Posted Image

Lots of people even suggested recipe's as L wanted, but ofc, they werent to his liking - so the dragging continues :-) - Exactly the same as any other change we, the players want. If its something L wants - changes instantly

Get used to it and you will never be let down

#17 skullpants

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Posted 09 May 2021 - 07:15 PM

Yes warlock, it seems you are correct.... but i keep hoping that you are incorrect. I am probably wrong.

#18 butler

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Posted 22 May 2021 - 06:58 AM

View Postskullpants, on 26 April 2021 - 06:08 PM, said:

No they didn't, but modables and serp stones are not falling out of the trees yet either.  

Make them difficult to mix, that is fine, but make them mixable. Also make them repairable or just make them break. Hard core mixers love to grind to get the levels needed to mix high end items. As long as the recipe does not cost 4 times what a similar weapon such as the mighty serp sword they will be mixed and put up for sale. Remember the Great Swords were not meant to be the next great weapon above the serp sword. They were meant to be situational choices similar to the serp sword.


Thanks for the thoughtful replies.

I have like 6-7 modables I'm just sat on. I got every cape, most rares I care to go for, read majority of books that are available, got decent level in everything but potioning (which is the easiest to level). To break down the problem:
  • Stangnant Playerbase: Population is old players, shrinking, and thus you've just got a snowball of whatever good items are left in circulation building up in their invs (and a whole lot of good items in inactive players inventories. Think how many millions of gold and items you have in Makiltur + Holosko + Bats sto. I mean, i'm nowhere near as rich as any of them but I was sitting on what, 8 serp swords at points and over 10 LPs and 4 BPs, etc.). There isn't really many people to sell things to, not many things to buy. Money stagnates.
  • Stagnant Development: Nothing substantial gets added to keep interest, feeds into point 1. Also means nothing really comes about to spend money. None of the economy issues from EL got resolved, and you see every single old player has lost faith unless their already on their pension. The economy has nothing to invigorate it from the development point.
I mean, I posted a thread about inflation in game economies in June 2017, and one about Item tiers in July of that year, that would have added more variety to drops and maybe helped increase trade, same idea in CoduX's thread for harvesting, again 2017. Wizzy posted about the economy back in 2016, and it's come up, time and time again, but what you need to solve this would be:
  • Clean slate. Rolling resets like they did early on in the game. This won't happen as people are attached to their characters now.
  • Have actual development, treated as development with a team and a plan, rather than one old man whining about the weather and sometimes doing some coding if its an idea he already liked. This won't happen because L seems to believe treating it as a business is the same as making it pay 2 win, ignoring that *thousands* of games do not do that, and this game can already be pay 2 win, see Empyrean/character buyers. He just doesn't fucking want to change it to be anything different to the EL shitshow.
  • Active playerbase. See everything else.
Basically game is fucked, been fucked for a while, and no one who can change it has any intention or desire to change it.

On that note, are characters even worth shit to sell anymore lol. Asking for a friend <.< >.>

#19 EatsAllLife

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Posted 07 June 2021 - 03:12 PM

View Postbutler, on 22 May 2021 - 06:58 AM, said:

View Postskullpants, on 26 April 2021 - 06:08 PM, said:

No they didn't, but modables and serp stones are not falling out of the trees yet either.  

Make them difficult to mix, that is fine, but make them mixable. Also make them repairable or just make them break. Hard core mixers love to grind to get the levels needed to mix high end items. As long as the recipe does not cost 4 times what a similar weapon such as the mighty serp sword they will be mixed and put up for sale. Remember the Great Swords were not meant to be the next great weapon above the serp sword. They were meant to be situational choices similar to the serp sword.


Thanks for the thoughtful replies.

I have like 6-7 modables I'm just sat on. I got every cape, most rares I care to go for, read majority of books that are available, got decent level in everything but potioning (which is the easiest to level). To break down the problem:
  • Stangnant Playerbase: Population is old players, shrinking, and thus you've just got a snowball of whatever good items are left in circulation building up in their invs (and a whole lot of good items in inactive players inventories. Think how many millions of gold and items you have in Makiltur + Holosko + Bats sto. I mean, i'm nowhere near as rich as any of them but I was sitting on what, 8 serp swords at points and over 10 LPs and 4 BPs, etc.). There isn't really many people to sell things to, not many things to buy. Money stagnates.

  • Stagnant Development: Nothing substantial gets added to keep interest, feeds into point 1. Also means nothing really comes about to spend money. None of the economy issues from EL got resolved, and you see every single old player has lost faith unless their already on their pension. The economy has nothing to invigorate it from the development point.
I mean, I posted a thread about inflation in game economies in June 2017, and one about Item tiers in July of that year, that would have added more variety to drops and maybe helped increase trade, same idea in CoduX's thread for harvesting, again 2017. Wizzy posted about the economy back in 2016, and it's come up, time and time again, but what you need to solve this would be:
  • Clean slate. Rolling resets like they did early on in the game. This won't happen as people are attached to their characters now.

  • Have actual development, treated as development with a team and a plan, rather than one old man whining about the weather and sometimes doing some coding if its an idea he already liked. This won't happen because L seems to believe treating it as a business is the same as making it pay 2 win, ignoring that *thousands* of games do not do that, and this game can already be pay 2 win, see Empyrean/character buyers. He just doesn't fucking want to change it to be anything different to the EL shitshow.

  • Active playerbase. See everything else.
Basically game is fucked, been fucked for a while, and no one who can change it has any intention or desire to change it.

On that note, are characters even worth shit to sell anymore lol. Asking for a friend <.< >.>


Tell your friend no.

#20 CoduX

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Posted 07 July 2021 - 08:25 AM

View Postbutler, on 22 May 2021 - 06:58 AM, said:

View Postskullpants, on 26 April 2021 - 06:08 PM, said:

No they didn't, but modables and serp stones are not falling out of the trees yet either.  

Make them difficult to mix, that is fine, but make them mixable. Also make them repairable or just make them break. Hard core mixers love to grind to get the levels needed to mix high end items. As long as the recipe does not cost 4 times what a similar weapon such as the mighty serp sword they will be mixed and put up for sale. Remember the Great Swords were not meant to be the next great weapon above the serp sword. They were meant to be situational choices similar to the serp sword.


Thanks for the thoughtful replies.

I have like 6-7 modables I'm just sat on. I got every cape, most rares I care to go for, read majority of books that are available, got decent level in everything but potioning (which is the easiest to level). To break down the problem:
  • Stangnant Playerbase: Population is old players, shrinking, and thus you've just got a snowball of whatever good items are left in circulation building up in their invs (and a whole lot of good items in inactive players inventories. Think how many millions of gold and items you have in Makiltur + Holosko + Bats sto. I mean, i'm nowhere near as rich as any of them but I was sitting on what, 8 serp swords at points and over 10 LPs and 4 BPs, etc.). There isn't really many people to sell things to, not many things to buy. Money stagnates.

  • Stagnant Development: Nothing substantial gets added to keep interest, feeds into point 1. Also means nothing really comes about to spend money. None of the economy issues from EL got resolved, and you see every single old player has lost faith unless their already on their pension. The economy has nothing to invigorate it from the development point.
I mean, I posted a thread about inflation in game economies in June 2017, and one about Item tiers in July of that year, that would have added more variety to drops and maybe helped increase trade, same idea in CoduX's thread for harvesting, again 2017. Wizzy posted about the economy back in 2016, and it's come up, time and time again, but what you need to solve this would be:
  • Clean slate. Rolling resets like they did early on in the game. This won't happen as people are attached to their characters now.

  • Have actual development, treated as development with a team and a plan, rather than one old man whining about the weather and sometimes doing some coding if its an idea he already liked. This won't happen because L seems to believe treating it as a business is the same as making it pay 2 win, ignoring that *thousands* of games do not do that, and this game can already be pay 2 win, see Empyrean/character buyers. He just doesn't fucking want to change it to be anything different to the EL shitshow.

  • Active playerbase. See everything else.
Basically game is fucked, been fucked for a while, and no one who can change it has any intention or desire to change it.

On that note, are characters even worth shit to sell anymore lol. Asking for a friend <.< >.>
The hard truth is slapped in our faces and whilst it's something we don't like hearing, its the cold, hard truth of the matter. Nothing can be said or forgiven about making the player base that have believed in this project of yours Learner (for over 4 years mind you) to finish Perks, let alone make the game interesting or have any updates AT ALL. Quite disappointing that we have a developer in charge that doesn't know how to develop and have no motivation in life. Maybe re-name from "developer" to "owner" since there is zero development done?

Why, I could of taken a course in coding and finished Perks myself if I really wanted to by now, but what a waste of time when I could be doing so much better things in life. Maybe somebody else can get the code and re-make this game if they reckon they could get it going.

They always say third times a charm! Posted Image

EDIT: I retract my statement about zero development, Zian has done a fantastic job with new maps and is the one real developer here.




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