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Dynamically loaded map


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#1 groomsh

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 03:39 AM

I would like to know your opinion on dynamically loaded maps.

With dynamically loaded i mean maps (map data) being sent from server (and possibly cached by client) when you try to enter it.
Currently largest map (cont2map1.elm.gz - which is Idaloran if i am not mistaken) is about 320kB of data - gzipped.

Transferring it should not take that long (about 2.5 seconds on a 1Mbit connection) and of course some client caching could be done,
where first a file hash would be sent to server and based on that, server would send whole data to the client, or just a "binary diff" (fe: xdelta).

On one side it would create additional load on server for serving the map data (which could be delegated to some "proxy type server/service"),
but it would open quite some possiblities for random generated maps, adding/removing/changing maps "on the run" etc ...

I know that it is not an easy task on server side (erm Learner could you possibly look into it just to see how complicated it is from your side ?),
but i guess it would be worth the effort because of the possiblities it opens.

PS: We don't have to start with making all current maps being dynamically loaded, but maybe with one "dungeon" enterable via an NPC dialogue for example.

#2 scarr

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 03:46 AM

now explain it to me like i am 5

#3 groomsh

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 03:54 AM

View Postscarr, on 22 October 2012 - 03:46 AM, said:

now explain it to me like i am 5
It's simple :)
Currently the map data is distributed with the client - so when you download the client, you get the map data.
This is ok and works great, however you cannot have random generated maps/dungeons, changes in maps "on the fly" etc, because the data came with your client download.
So to change it, you need quit the client, re-download it (or just the map) and start the client again (maybe just map change is sufficient)...

Dynamically loaded maps mean, that when you try to enter a map following things happen:
1. client map data cache is checked whether it contains the map and map data hash is sent to the server (just some short unique identifier)
2. server checks whether your cached map is up to date and if not, it sends the updated map data (or the whole map data in case you don't have it at all)
3. map is loaded and you continue normally


#4 greg

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 04:21 AM

Great idea, but isn't this just a rehash of the auto update system?

My concern would be a player with a slow connection (people still use modems) walking into a PK map and having to wait for quite some time before they get the updated map, at which time some nice friendly pker slaughters them.

Another issue could be the same player lagging out while waiting for the map to download.

#5 groomsh

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 04:24 AM

View Postgreg, on 22 October 2012 - 04:21 AM, said:

My concern would be a player with a slow connection (people still use modems) walking into a PK map and having to wait for quite some time before they get the updated map, at which time some nice friendly pker slaughters them.
This would have to be handled with some server side "map loading" state or something similar, where the player would leave the map from which he is comming and not yet enter the map where he was heading.

#6 StarDark

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 04:38 AM

What about having 2 types of maps?
The main maps remain as they were/are.
And we use your idea for smallish maps.

I can think of an use for a possible renewed invance (way ahead...;))

#7 Salt

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 07:15 AM

View Postscarr, on 22 October 2012 - 03:46 AM, said:

now explain it to me like i am 5
link

&dynamic maps sound interesting :)

#8 scarr

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 07:51 AM

what can you do with dynamic maps, spawning harvestables diff locations and such?

#9 Learner

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 07:53 AM

We currently have the auto update system, and there is some dynamic modification capabilities built in which isn't used very much yet, but will be used more in the future. You do get rid of a lot of problems if the maps are already loaded into your PC. You will also find that auto updating of maps will be happening a lot more often in OL instead of waiting for a new client.

#10 scarr

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 08:53 AM

ah yeah. that makes sense.

#11 scarr

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 06:57 AM

If this gets implemented, players wont have the maps on their computers anymore and wouldn't be able to edit them for personal advantages, yes?
if so, thats a good thing :)

#12 Learner

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 07:08 AM

View Postscarr, on 23 October 2012 - 06:57 AM, said:

If this gets implemented, players wont have the maps on their computers anymore and wouldn't be able to edit them for personal advantages, yes?
if so, thats a good thing :)
And if the maps are included as part of auto-update, they may find some of their edited maps removed or auto updates of important things not working for them.

#13 Trojan_Knight

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 03:21 PM

In my opinion, having played from various speeds of computer/internet speed capabilities over the years. I would lean more towards having the maps DL w/ client and etc like how is presently accomplished.

#14 StarDark

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 04:06 PM

View PostTrojan_Knight, on 25 October 2012 - 03:21 PM, said:

In my opinion, having played from various speeds of computer/internet speed capabilities over the years. I would lean more towards having the maps DL w/ client and etc like how is presently accomplished.

Are you saying that because you experienced slower speed in the past, that we should consider having to deal with your...um....slower speeds in the past?

#15 Trojan_Knight

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Posted 25 October 2012 - 08:18 PM

View PostStarDark, on 25 October 2012 - 04:06 PM, said:

View PostTrojan_Knight, on 25 October 2012 - 03:21 PM, said:

In my opinion, having played from various speeds of computer/internet speed capabilities over the years. I would lean more towards having the maps DL w/ client and etc like how is presently accomplished.

Are you saying that because you experienced slower speed in the past, that we should consider having to deal with your...um....slower speeds in the past?
Its not the point of "my" slower speeds in past. More so, I'm not saying OL is or not going to go in this direction, but in other games that have updates 3, 4, or 7 times a month or week for example, it becomes disgurishing to play. Same with waiting times for games to load. The more that has to load the longer it takes for any speed. The longer the load time takes for any speed, the more excited or disgurished someone becomes with that game. First handful of times playing a unfamilar game, waiting is exciting, beyond that, and people are in the blah blah mode.

So if maps are to be "loaded" persey apon game log-in. Instead of saved on computer. Then that is going to add to the loading time. By adding to the loading time, we are forcing everyone to wait longer to play. For some it may only be a couple of seconds, for others it could be a handful of minutes. For some, who's to say if that alone may or not be the reason why they grue out during process of logging in? Thus become infused in agrivation and then just give up? My point is to allow all system and internet types the ability to play this game in a moderate fashion.

Just my 2 gc. :)

#16 StarDark

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 12:31 AM

There's no need to download the map again everytime you log on ;)
Just whenever the map has been updated and the hashes don't match anymore =)




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