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Monster "aggro" change


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Poll: Monster Aggro Change (71 member(s) have cast votes)

How should agrro/target selection be handled?

  1. Stay on the current target even when a new one joins in (38 votes [53.52%])

    Percentage of vote: 53.52%

  2. Fight the weakest target (14 votes [19.72%])

    Percentage of vote: 19.72%

  3. Fight the strongest target (4 votes [5.63%])

    Percentage of vote: 5.63%

  4. Pick a random target (3 votes [4.23%])

    Percentage of vote: 4.23%

  5. Other (2 votes [2.82%])

    Percentage of vote: 2.82%

  6. Leave it as it is, we can always change it later (6 votes [8.45%])

    Percentage of vote: 8.45%

  7. I don't know (4 votes [5.63%])

    Percentage of vote: 5.63%

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#21 Elder

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 08:38 PM

I voted to stay on current target.

#22 Jade

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 04:30 PM

I know this is an old poll but it was recently brought to my attention during a completely different conversation. I voted leave it as is for the following reasons.

1. The tanking and taking off armor.. it is a pain in the ass but you're used to it.
2. ranging. this would stop us from being able to pin a mob if agro is changed.
3. If the player gets pinned, there would be no way to get unpinned. Summoning a rat is the usual answer to this dilemma.

I know you all say ranging is so OP but who do you ask for when killing an MB or a casty? I dont see any difference here. We might not have MB's, Dragons, Casty but we have other mobs we can play with.

Those who will say "irl a mob wouldnt just stand there" the answer is no it wouldnt, but it can be treed like a hunting dog hunting an animal. Same thing.

Going with the weakist fighter would kill newbs so that wouldnt work either.

You need to think of ALL aspects of changing something like this. not just because you want to change how works for tanking.

#23 scarr

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 04:50 PM

View PostJade, on 02 February 2013 - 04:30 PM, said:

1. The tanking and taking off armor.. it is a pain in the ass but you're used to it.
2. ranging. this would stop us from being able to pin a mob if agro is changed.
3. If the player gets pinned, there would be no way to get unpinned. Summoning a rat is the usual answer to this dilemma.

1. Its bad mechanics, why should we deal with that? Also I am not used to it.
2. ranging will be reworked, no need to argue
3.summoning will be reworked, no need to argue

#24 Nova

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Posted 02 February 2013 - 05:22 PM

Players getting pinned when ranging is a bug isn't it?  There should be a call for fixing the bug.  Bugs shouldn't be used as a reason not to make some other change.

#25 groomsh

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 04:20 AM

Pinning a mob is a bug too - at least i see it so.

#26 Nova

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Posted 03 February 2013 - 08:56 AM

that's a whole other convo tho.  (but in case that convo never happens: the way pinning can happen now, probably, but if the option were taken away it would be nice to see some sort of temporary pinning device added in it's place.  maybe a spell or a 'freezing' item that produces the same result but only temporarily.)

#27 Jade

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 08:52 AM

I went onto to test and worked with learner on pinning. He can disable it now but will be looking into it more once ranging is reworked. I am still against it. But tbh atm in OL there isnt anything worth pinning. I do it for fun and i have never farmed mobs like most ppl do. I'm just trying to get you guys to realize, you change 1 thing for 1 reason, it affects MORE than just that 1 thing.

#28 Learner

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 08:57 AM

The pinning fix was needed for the Unicorn update, but also would have affected the 'stay on the current player' option in this Poll as well

#29 PandemiC

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 09:33 AM

View PostJade, on 04 February 2013 - 08:52 AM, said:

I went onto to test and worked with learner on pinning. He can disable it now but will be looking into it more once ranging is reworked. I am still against it. But tbh atm in OL there isnt anything worth pinning. I do it for fun and i have never farmed mobs like most ppl do. I'm just trying to get you guys to realize, you change 1 thing for 1 reason, it affects MORE than just that 1 thing.

Troll Night, just now. :P

#30 Jade

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 06:04 PM

View PostPandemiC, on 04 February 2013 - 09:33 AM, said:

View PostJade, on 04 February 2013 - 08:52 AM, said:

I went onto to test and worked with learner on pinning. He can disable it now but will be looking into it more once ranging is reworked. I am still against it. But tbh atm in OL there isnt anything worth pinning. I do it for fun and i have never farmed mobs like most ppl do. I'm just trying to get you guys to realize, you change 1 thing for 1 reason, it affects MORE than just that 1 thing.

Troll Night, just now. :P
lol yeah yeah you got me there. :P pure luck he was near a pin spot.  But after the update, i doubt it can be done again. Ofc i will try anyway. ;)

#31 Jenfy

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 06:09 AM

View PostSalt, on 09 October 2012 - 08:27 AM, said:

Weird poll:
It gives the options of how monster will strike out to players, but doesn't give options as to how a player can control the agro in a way that is best for the system. And I don't think they can be looked at separately.
Also for reasons that are in the Notes at the end.


What I'd prefer:
Monster Perspective: If it has multiple opponents, random at first, dealing damage to all. Then it decides that X is greater threat than Y, and focus's X. (probably closest to the 'by strength' option in vote but random striking out of opponents is reasonable...especially at first). Logic? I'd focus on the lion trying to eat me before the ant that's biting my foot.

Player Perspective: Now if the above is true, the critter will likely end up deciding that the damagers in the group should be attacked (strongest damage dealers)..and since they aren't generally tank'y this isn't optimal for the team/group. We then need to start brainstorming ideas as to how they can force the critter to focus somewhere ....a tank/ strongest player -> generally ideal.

How?
  • Items that socket into your gears/wep that will increase "Hate/Agro" per hit(or some lump sum increase agro value towards yourself)
  • Items that decrease "Hate/Agro"...
  • Maybe they don't need to socket, just need to be kept in your INV while fighting, each hit would have a % chance to consume this "less agro" or "more agro" item.
  • Perhaps weapons and gears should inherently come with 'agro values' that increase/decrease opponents chance to be focused upon. (maybe this could be considered a 'rare' for manu..where you would produce a sword of high damage, and get lucky with a low agro inducing value, OR high end armor that helps focus hate upon a tank)
  • Perks that can alter how agro is generated and lost by each player.(per hit, or increasing the cap of total agro generated for a specific player)
  • Can factor in damage being dealt to the target critter, but this shouldn't be too important, but not completely left out of the equation.
  • We need a system where the critter is remembering who is hitting him for what damage, and also generating 'agro' scores, to see who should be attacked, until it dies, even if someone flee's and re-engages.
  • Perhaps spells that a tank(or strongest player in group) can cast to force-attack him(permanently or for a duration)
  • Perhaps we need a mage spell, where a mage would cast the spell, click the mob, and click the desired tank..
Spells, Items, armors, weapons, masteries, perks...there are many ways to make this 'smart'.

Why? This method has more potential for strategy and teamwork. No 'pls take plate off'.

Notes:
Planning this sort of stuff (how monsters attack, who and what damage) is like planning the menu of a restaurant that isn't built yet(we know it must be done sometime, but goodness me, the foundations aren't laid yet). Its tough to decide on this sort of thing when we don't know what attribute system is going to be used, what monsters we will see in-game in future, will classes be more evident in future(?)...what spells and items, perks and masteries (if at all) we can expect...

Excellent point and something I had been thinking about but wasn't able to articulate nearly as well as you have here.

One example of altering the player perspective and adding aggression control (from old TUI MUD) is an option to set stance of char and change it mid-battle.  The game mechanics there were closely based on D&D and each stance set a variety of modifier values to the rolls.  It was all pretty intuitive - there were more options but the basic idea is that hitter takes an aggressive stance, tank defensive, squishies evasive. The mob reacts to aggression calculated by stance and damage from player.  This worked for both PvE or PvP and regardless of single or grouped players.

How this can work - assuming that multiple players are banded together in a battle group - a squishy mage in evasive stance casts a big damage spell to mob  exceeding what the hitter is doing then mob switches to mage until higher damage from hitter causes new switch.  If your hitter is in trouble and healers faltering then tank can go more aggressive and hitter can go defensive until regaining health/shielding then switch back.

OR - assuming single player attacking a creature which does high damage but doesn't land hits often -  Strategizing choices required - either equip self with high armor and fight in evasive stance OR  equip self with high damage equipment and take an aggressive stance.  The correct choice would be guided by players specific build and skills.  so there are more choices and control for player, makes equipment diversity important, and makes play less formulaic.

On this model you could then expand making some mobs more intelligent and choosing to attack low aggressors, or make some rabid mobs randomizing attacks and quick switching and possibly targeting multiple opponents simultaneously (splitting) as well as adding nastiness like area attacks...  plenty of options for ebulness.

#32 Jade

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 10:56 AM

BTW i almost forgot another point from rangers. In the rare instance where a ranger gets pinned by the mob, more chance in el with the rd than here, the ranger would summon a rat or bunny to change the agro target, freeing them from the pin. Here with this change, it will no longer be possible. With the fix on the Uni , we should no longer get pinned either.

#33 Learner

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 06:55 AM

Change to attempt to stay on target during multi-combat activated in Test on 3/31/2013

#34 scarr

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 04:48 AM

View PostLearner, on 31 March 2013 - 06:55 AM, said:

Change to attempt to stay on target during multi-combat activated in Test on 3/31/2013
After playing for a while now, this seems nice, except  summoning spam can be a problem in pk

#35 Nightmare

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 10:18 AM

View PostLearner, on 31 March 2013 - 06:55 AM, said:

Change to attempt to stay on target during multi-combat activated in Test on 3/31/2013

I don't understand what this mean.

#36 Learner

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 10:23 AM

This is related to Monster Aggro (but it's not just that) from http://www.other-lif...r-aggro-change/

#37 Ikaris

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 12:01 AM

Changed my vote to current target from weakest so you can be group multi-ed.

Have fun being swarmed.




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