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Player Death Bags


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#1 Learner

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 09:55 PM

Some people like death bags, others don't, and then you have bag jumpers.

What if when a player picks up another players DB, a message is sent to a channel about that? Maybe it only says the name of the player picked up another players bag without naming who's DB was picked up. Yes, most people will have a good idea of who's it was.

What are the Pros and Cons? Think about it and discuss!

#2 Nightmare

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Posted 01 February 2014 - 02:16 AM

I think this gets rid of a nice outlaw element that has caused nice pk for years.  Leave as is imo

#3 Fire

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Posted 01 February 2014 - 03:09 AM

Cool idea Learner.



How I see it,If you die ,there should appear window with question:

Do you want to post msg of your dying? Yes No
Do you want lock you bag from putting it by someone else? Yes No

Obviously .. I guess the second option (safing bag from putting/stealing) should require some item/perk/skill or whatever.Maybe action points or just put the risk that one item from you db will dissappear,safing payment.

Other option is to bring skull/skeleton keys to OL and change their function.So If you use skull key before dying,your bag will appear in hyperscape after you die.
Then if you want get it back,stand on correct tile and use skeleton one.

Other idea is to impute the names to bags(make them belonging to each player).So shortly,if you die and someone wants to pick up db,he./she will get a msg : You can't put it,it is not yours!
And it seems like good idea,obviously we should be able to make each bags allowed for picking up by other players...But after our action,not automatically.

The last possiblity I was thinking is to make us able to see death place some mins after we die(camera ghost)
But It wont safe us from bagjumpers ,it will just show whats going on on death place/who took bag/who is there etc.

#4 Bat17

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Posted 01 February 2014 - 03:11 AM

BJ'ing is legal part of game, no point in a "name and shame" policy unless you are going to make it illegal!, Same with locking to prevent jumping, if you cant lose stuff then all the risk of fighting is gone and a whole section of the game with it. Use no drop arenas/maps for risk free fighting.
I have lost bags in invasions, but mostly I have got them back, the lost bags are part of the game and I don't bleat about it.

#5 StarDark

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Posted 01 February 2014 - 05:41 AM

What if, instead of channel messages, each bag has a history (who put it down, who took something out etc.) which data would be accesible either in the GUI or by using a command?

#6 Learner

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Posted 01 February 2014 - 05:48 AM

View PostStarDark, on 01 February 2014 - 05:41 AM, said:

What if, instead of channel messages, each bag has a history (who put it down, who took something out etc.) which data would be accesible either in the GUI or by using a command?
That's a lot more data to track per bag and if the bag is removed, it's all gone anyways.

#7 butler

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Posted 01 February 2014 - 07:19 AM

OK. Im fine with the current system tbh, but i will give some examples of dbs from other games.
  • In another one, we have a corpse system, where if anyone dies, ALL items they have drop but ONLY they can pick them up and bags remain active for 3 hours of logged in time. You also get a #corpse command for its loc. You could also opt out to let EVERYBODY pick your bag up. This works well and encourages newbie ->established player interaction for db recovery, BUT relies on the fact that a system of PKI (which works on several tiers and is more accurate than ours iirc, but i need to double check on it) so their is incentives. Also the unscroupulous guild wars and defectors of guilds getting red tags.... but i think we could work a better system on that if people wanted.

  • In another game, you choose 2 items that you keep on death, with everything else having a drop chance, meaning drop pk still works but people dont rage quit if they lose a mirror :P
but as i said, right now, i think its fine.

EDIT:
Making a universal post of drop is the wrong direction imo. If you want something like that, make local orange messages for bosses in invasions like instances.

Perks or requirements to NOT drop will give us the same issue as rostogols in EL, where people will end up just preying on the newbies instead. you should offer more protection to low levels than top tbh, not the otherway around, which is imo, one of the big issues.

EDIT: GypsyNomad, can you actually read what i said, as i stated i didnt want these in game, but these are ideas others might find interesting. Have an open mind.

#8 StarDark

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Posted 01 February 2014 - 08:03 AM

View Postbutler, on 01 February 2014 - 07:19 AM, said:

  • In another one, we have a corpse system, where if anyone dies, ALL items they have drop but ONLY they can pick them up and bags remain active for 3 hours of logged in time. You also get a #corpse command for its loc. You could also opt out to let EVERYBODY pick your bag up. This works well and encourages newbie ->established player interaction for db recovery, BUT relies on the fact that a system of PKI (which works on several tiers and is more accurate than ours iirc, but i need to double check on it) so their is incentives. Also the unscroupulous guild wars and defectors of guilds getting red tags.... but i think we could work a better system on that if people wanted.
Could you please rewrite this? I don't get it.

#9 butler

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Posted 01 February 2014 - 02:37 PM

sorry was trying to type it quickly before i had to go.
  • When you die
    • You drop everything
    • Nobody can pick it up but you, unless you opt out1
    • Bag remains in game for 3 hours as long as your logged in (this game kicked you from server if afk for more than 10 mins)
  • This meant that
    • BJ didnt exist
    • Warring faction was popular pk (to recover bag you usually needed team in high level zones)
    • Interaction between high level and low levels for bag return (Which i remember when i was a newbie). We had QP return which was effective a cross between PP and Plats as reward for newbie helping too, which worked with the system.
    • Still penalty for death (we did have a larger map)
    • Issue is camping on bags in pk
    • Loc given by #corpse command

1Opt out, #deathbag, means everyone could open bag like normal drops bag

I just typed it as a completely different system i had seen, but would require alot of tweaks to work it into OL. It comes from a MUD that relied on hack/slash/adventure and major pk battles and duels.

#10 scarr

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Posted 02 February 2014 - 06:55 AM

don't bother, it works fine

#11 Fire

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Posted 02 February 2014 - 07:57 AM

according to Hades "dont wanna be bjed ? dont die"

#12 themuntdregger

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Posted 02 February 2014 - 07:02 PM

View PostLearner, on 31 January 2014 - 09:55 PM, said:

Some people like death bags, others don't, and then you have bag jumpers.

What if when a player picks up another players DB, a message is sent to a channel about that? Maybe it only says the name of the player picked up another players bag without naming who's DB was picked up. Yes, most people will have a good idea of who's it was.

What are the Pros and Cons? Think about it and discuss!

Could be an opportunity to introduce some interesting strategy into bj and anti-bj measures. On the basis that having the name of a bj'er announed in chan can be a useful deterrent, why not make it contingent on the chars holding a special item (let's call it a bj-stone). This would be a one-time use item which could be acquired either as a mob-drop or,  purchasable from an NPC.

A more interesting device might be a bj-mine which, detonates when a bj'er attempts to access the bag, and then announces this in chan.

Then, even up the score by having a 'Cape of the thief' which, allows you to pick up db's without being announced and, provides 1:10 protection against the bj-mine.

#13 yournamehere

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Posted 13 March 2014 - 03:39 AM

Making maps no drop, except PK ones. Don't you have more fun during NDD?

#14 Fire

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Posted 13 March 2014 - 09:16 AM

love such idea

#15 butler

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Posted 13 March 2014 - 12:10 PM

View Postyournamehere, on 13 March 2014 - 03:39 AM, said:

Making maps no drop, except PK ones. Don't you have more fun during NDD?
I have more fun because i can suddenly be more reckless than usual, but i suspect the joy would diminish with it being regular.
Also stops one of those ways to get armours out of game by losing them in invasions ( I lost greaves/cuisses/cheap armours/weaps in various invasions ) ontop of break rates.
but thats a thought, i dont really mind which way we go tbh, as long as the core of the game remains enjoyable, anything but an extremely unfair drop systems doesnt really take much away for me.

#16 yournamehere

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Posted 14 March 2014 - 09:25 AM

About items leaving the game, add rosto. NPC would sell it cheap, like 2kgc.
Imo, there are not that much items poofing after a player death. If the items are worth it, you get it back or get bag jumped.

Constant NDD would be boring to you? Explain please.

#17 butler

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Posted 14 March 2014 - 12:09 PM

I would just stop buying anything from shop, doing anything for the game and quit if we go rostos. Just something i never seen in another game and doesnt work in EL, on main or pk.

Also i feel NDD gives me a psychological benifit where i feel i can be more reckless in pk and PvE, and it feels special cause EVERYBODY joins in and fights each other and fcks about ( i mean i killed 3 pr0s that they just cause we decided to fck about). It gives it a special feeling. I would be up for making pk maps non drop on one day with some encouragement for massive pk (just as everybody comes out for invasions). I just feel that the magic of NDD would be lost, just as the magic of instances wore off for me after my second time (god it was really that repetitive).

Was just a thought poofing, as i said i dont really care which way we go as long as we dont have anything that disadvantages the poor as much as rostos (even cheap rostos can get expensive if you lose a load in short succession, like when i died 5 time on Sunday invasion and Achilles dieing a few time in KF invasion. I will just stack to an annoying end)

#18 NeXt

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Posted 23 March 2014 - 03:17 PM

I dont care if its post or not,

And yes ofcourse i take deathbag's so dont die near me.

#19 Fire

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Posted 08 April 2014 - 05:21 AM

Make rosto buyable for like 1k gc

#20 yournamehere

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Posted 08 April 2014 - 08:14 AM

Anyone against the constant NDD, really?
We already have a chance to break stuff while fighting, it's enought risks imo.

Keep pk maps with drops, but don't invade those ones. Add ressources/spawns there, to make it really attractive anyway.

About rostogols: could be a nice feature in the future. Exemple, some kind of instances or whatever requires a fee to enter. You'll stay inside as long as you carry one, nice to prevent farming and such + remove gold from the game (would also remove TrollButler, so needs some balance). I'm against the rosto system working in each and every map, pve or pvp.

Atm, i really feel bad every time i die and lose the best parts of my gear. Most of us do. But we can deal with it as we are used to it.
Now, imagine a newbie, average joe player, going to an invasion for the first time in his brand new stuff. He worked hard for it. Like two weeks of casual gaming. He'll die in 5 mins and lose most parts of his shiny armour (evil NeXt bagjumped him too). Learning the hardway?




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